Job Discussion Forums

[burngirl]

Hi all! I have a question for those with experience.

I intend to make teaching english a career. With that in mind, I am interested in teaching for at least a year to see how the profession suits me, before making any firm decisions and seeking an MA in TESOL.

Until now I have been focusing my energies on researching teaching opportunities in Asia, mainly due to the chance to gain experience while paying off student loans... but I've been thinking more and more that it might be worthwhile to forget about saving money in the first year in favour of finding a really good quality teaching position that will help me to decide whether I love or hate the job (where "good" relates to enjoyment of teaching). I may be getting a very skewed impression, but it seems that these forums have an awful lot of negative things to say about teaching in Asia - that it's not so much enjoyable as sought out to pad the wallet.

So if you have any suggestions of paths I might take to ensure that I end up in a place where enjoyment of the job would be placed above all other benefits/downfalls (such as pay, or housing, or quality of life in the city...) please let me know! And if any of you have found that Asia has been a rewarding experience as a teacher, please share that as well

[John Hall]

If you really love teaching, your passion for it will survive a crappy first job. My first job in Japan was teaching at a Nova-style institution that went bankrupt six months after I left it. It was very intense, but I went on to better jobs afterward in Japan. I always enjoyed teaching there; I just stopped enjoying living there.

Here it is eleven years later, and I am still teaching, albeit not in Asia.

[coffeedrinker]

I think the above post makes a lot of sense - and there will be downsides to any job.

That said, if I wanted to focus on what makes a good working environment, and possibly one to see if you'd like to continue in the field (because as you get more qualified and experienced, you'll have increased choice in where you can work), I'd look for these things:

- a school with teaching support (regular seminars, a reasonably qualified Director of Studies employed) and resources in the teachers room (and this implies there is a teachers room)

- I'd look for one where you are also not only teaching conversation but other skills too, and if possible a mix of one-to-ones and groups. I personally think teaching kids brings classroom management issues up that may be a bit much for newer teachers on top of the new job, but that's me - plenty of newer teachers do teach kids.

- I'd want one with maximum hours on the low side so you have the time and mental energy to prepare - though this may end up meaning a lower salary.

- Finally, a place with "good" students! This is probably the hardest to guess at in advance, and probably a little silly for me to list as a requirement. I guess I'd want students who do expect to learn something - and not just practice or interact with a native speaker - but also who have reasonable expectations about what a teacher needs to provide. It doesn't hurt if they are friendly and kind people either!

[Glenski]

If it's a long-term career that you are dreaming of, get credentials. Of course, there is nothing wrong with testing the waters first, but...

[globalnomad2]

Agreed--well said. I was with an American university campus for my first two years in Japan, and with a Japanese women's college in my second two years. I think a major issue is how much you can adapt to the culture of Japan. It seemed to me when I was there that about 80% of the foreigners who worked in Japan hated the place. They hated it because of the rather extreme conformity, the racism that goes far beyond what we complain about in the UK or US, and the general attitude of the Japanese that they are superior beings in every way.

On the other hand, perhaps 20% of the foreign residents love Japan deeply, but to do that, they must subordinate their personal identities in order to reconcile their desire to stay in the country with the basic fact of life that Japan is, in general, a xenophobic country.

The college students I had at two different types of universities were not at all polite. So many of them were either surly or totally uninterested in anything except the designer logos on their clothes.

[sidjameson]

Everybody has their own experience, but I have to say that my experience is rather different from the poster above.

England and America is a far more racist place than Japan in my experience. I have been here 9 years and haven't experienced anything that I could interpret as racist. The race riots/Rodney King like instances/katrina footage shown on tv at least have not to my knowledge been anywhere near duplicated in Japan.

When people hated Japan I often thought it said more about the person than it did about Japan. The xenophibia is something I've often heard, but the worst I've seen is a it of ignorant stereotyping.

I haven't had to change anything that I am aware of. I don't love Japan deeply at all, but do find Japan a remarkably easy place to live.

My college kids are a delight. I get waved at all the time. Always polite. 90% of the kids try really hard in class. I have taught the disinterested type though but I just wanted to say that good and bad students exist.

I would like to ask the poster above what other countries he has taught in as anyone who thinks Japan is tough just hasn't lived in many other places IMO.

[Stephen Jones]

The OP's problem is that she's at the bottom of the foodchain but wants a job at the top.

JET is a good idea for an American (working as an 'assistant' is a useful introduction for Brits). She will be able to decide if she likes living abroad, and likes standing in front of a class of kids.

[globalnomad2]

I have taught in Malaysia, Japan, Saudi Arabia and the UAE the past 20 years, and also lived all around Europe for 15 years, and the rest in my home country. Rodney King footage does not define the whole nation, and it was --what--15 years ago? Katrina was bad. Thanks to the bumbling incompetence of the Bush White House and cabinet cronies. But there is nothing to compare to these incidents in Japan because there are no significant minorities in Japan; it is a homogenous society. And they prefer to keep it that way. Millions of people of all races emigrate to the US and as long as they are there legally they are welcomed. You should know very well how the Japanese look down on and treat the Brazilians, for example, and even the Koreans. Where else but in Japan would a UNIVERSITY PRESIDENT make a remark like "the computers in our lab are so easy to use, even a bakachon would have no trouble." A bakachon is a "stupid Korean." This was the rector at my university where I taught. And there was an ethnic Korean there among the faculty!

Japan was enjoyable in some respects; I had a wonderful dating life; I'm not saying everyone was like that, but I stand by what I said because, for one thing, my words were verified by almost every foreigner I knew or met...with that 20%-or-so exception. Furthermore, I was made somewhat painfully aware of my (Anglo) race every day in that country. I find the Middle East much more friendly. Isn't that pathetic? And what does it say about those supposedly superior Japanese?

I did not make all this up in a vacuum, having spent 20 years in the US, 15 in Europe, 12 in the Middle East, 2 in Malaysia, 7 in the UAE. Such travels enable one to learn FROM other cultures, not just ABOUT them. I'm afraid, however, that I benefited much more from the rest of the world than from Japan, where much is based merely on malicious gossip, extreme conformity and xenophobia--not to mention it's a sex-based society, but I don't have a problem with that.

That is not to say, however, that you should not find reasons to enjoy it. Perhaps the country has changed since 1992 when I was last there; perhaps you also live in Tokyo, which is more cosmopolitan than the rest.

[coffeedrinker]

[globalnomad2]

Stephen, it appears to me that it is the OP, Burngirl, who is still at the bottom hoping for something at the top, not coffeedrinker.

[Stephen Jones]

My apologies; I thought coffeedrinker was the OP. I will try and edit the post, but Dave's software is so atrocious that I might not succeed.

[coffeedrinker]

oh...okay...

We can be friends then. Or something.



I suppose I'll leave my post because it still clarifies my original. I'm glad I quoted you, otherwise my post will look a little off if you edit yours!

[globalnomad2]

Brings to mind a line from my favorite western, Tombstone, with Val Kilmer as a truly excellent Doc Holiday. At a poker table, Holiday is accused of cheating by some saloon bully named Johnny (or whatever).

"Whah Johnny," Holiday says, "Does this mean that we are no longer friends? Whah, if ah thought we weren't friends, I don't think I could beah it."

[Mayhem ensues]

Okay, let's see how long before this post gets deleted.

[burngirl]

Thank you all for your help; I have investigated the JET program, but admit that it appealed a little less after I read so much about it often having little to do with teaching and more to do with being a Western presence in the classroom for cultural purposes (I seem to remember numerous references to "dancing monkeys").

I hadn't realized that by seeking out a job that would give me a range of teaching experience I was "aiming for the top of the foodchain". I did mention specifically that money and other aspects peripheral to the job were not nearly so important as the teaching experience itself, so I wasn't aware my standards were unreasonably high.

Thank you, coffeedrinker, especially for your detailed suggestions! They were particularly helpful.

I'm not sure how much additional clarification I can provide, but I'll tell you about my qualifications. I'll have a degree in English and a CELTA, with a bit of volunteer teaching/tutoring experience. My aim is to spend 1-3 years anywhere in the world, gaining experience as an ESL teacher so that I can decide whether to pursue a masters in TESOL. I was interested in Asia due to the fact that I've never traveled there - although I've lived in other countries and have a good idea of what it is to be "othered"; I'm not worried about that. Given my lack of teaching know-how, I had been thinking of walking into a position where the curriculum/books/systems were already in place (as in the larger private institutions) as opposed to a public school, for my first year. My original post came out of the fear that with a job such as this I might be forsaking "quality" teaching experience (if the organization's primary motive is profit and not education for instance). Also, I'd been considering a year in one of Seoul's "English Villages" as they intrigued me. So again, concerned that this might not be "real teaching". I'm sorry, my thoughts are not the clearest at this point, but I have a year before I'd begin my adventure so I'm still working it out! Any advice is appreciated.

[Glenski]