Job Discussion Forums

[Glenski]

[FuzzX]

I think the fact that my husband and I travelled her together with our dog in tow should show that we aren't here to sleep with local women and just fund our travelling. We are in this for the long haul. Of course we do plan to drink a lot of beer but ...it's Mexico...beer is cheap.

I have to disagree I sleep with a local woman and its great, I think thats probably why I�ll be here for the long haul. See you guys in Vallarta

My only problem with people spouting ��ou need a degree to teach� or �you should have a degree � is that its bullshit. The only thing a degree says about a teacher is that he spent 4 more years as a student than I did.

[Sheikh Inal Ovar]

[cangringo]

[cangringo]

honestly sheikh - you haven't given me anything new to mull over...

[Sheikh Inal Ovar]

Duh .. no cangringo .. it would never have occured to me that fuzzy was playing the buffoon .. after all everything he has said over the last few days, on this and other threads, has been so downright profound ...

I admit my sense of humour can't compete with the antics you've exhibited over the course of this thread ... you play the clown to perfection ...

[cangringo]

Whoops, that's why you should never post drunk...I was so excited to be able to watch a playoff hockey game that I got a little overexuberant if you will.

Anyway the most recent argument is way off the track of what I was trying to say. I was talking about all your bar lowering and such, not what governments may or may not accept.

[Glenski]

I don't want to get in on this terribly worn-out discussion very much, but here's something I can respond to.

[cangringo]

[Glenski]

[FuzzX]

Its stupid to argue this ... for anyone reading (You dont need a degree to teach). The Academics will always disagree but if you are considering working in this field without one, just know that your gonna run into a whole shit load of people who have nothing in their life except their university experience.


thats all I have to contribute, everything else on this forum is b u l l s h i t.

[Glenski]

[nadi1016]

Hello,

I have a degree in Poli Sci. I want to take a TEFL class or some such certification for teaching overseas, but, am curious if I should take the certification in the country I am looking at teaching in? I am specifically looking at Korea and China, because I hear the pay is better and I like Asian culture (spent time in Thailand and loved it). I want to make some money as well, so do you think these are good countries to look at? If you think so, does anyone have any recommendations for where to begin in these countries for specific schools to get certification and then job placement that is reputable? Or do you just suggest I visit the China and Korea forums? Thank you all, I will look forward to any responses.

[kirez]

Sarah, I've only read 90% of the material in this thread.

First, the demand for English teachers is so strong that any school in Korea, China, Russia and probably several other markets, will hire you IF they can get away with it.

I've been in Russia for 16 months now, and from what I've seen of the market here, I know that you can get hired without a degree, and in many places without a certification. I've known several schools who've explicitly said they care more about your interpersonal and teaching skills than your degree or certification. I've met people who offered me jobs as a teacher without yet seeing or asking for my credentials.

There ARE the usual schools which demand credentials; I know that I couldn't have gotten one of my current jobs, teaching at a state university, without both a degree and certification. But I have, and have had, several jobs that required nothing.

Second, several false ideas have gone undisputed in this thread -- I'm going to ignore most of them for now, but approach this sideways, as follows --

The OP indicated clearly that she'd be seeking a certification. If the degree is relevant to the industry or to the qualifications, why do we have a certification process?

We have it because it's quite relevant. The certification directly testifies to training in the central, essential skill: teaching English to speakers of other languages.

ESL is a relatively new industry, and it's showing growing pains identical to every new industry. The insiders are groaning about what they see as "falling standards", and hankering for protectionism. Not understanding the mechanisms of quantity supplied and demanded (and I'm NOT a fan of equilibrium analyses!), they think that "lowering the bar" is contributing to what they perceive as falling prices.

They don't even have the wherewithal to distinguish between anecdotal evidence or personal experience, versus objective statistical data; and they offer up their personal feelings, gripes and bitterness as if it were relevant.


I'll offer up this personal perspective: one of the best things about the EFL industry is that it is relatively unregulated. Individual schools get to decide, outside of the political/visa requirement contexts in Korea, China and Japan and the gulf states, how they'll do their hiring and what they'll require.

So we see a huge variety of standards being applied, and methods of managing their schools, and of teachers managing their careers. And this diversity is very healthy. One of the very few consensuses (consensi???) in this business is the value of the TEFL training and certification. And this is very much like other industries where a degree is irrelevant to qualifications, and hence a certification is most relevant.

Students generally understand that they need to shop around and find what's best for them. Same with schools and directors, and same with teachers, hence all the discussions and information-clearing sessions we have on these forums.

Again, personally, I have no difficulty engaging in this entrepreneurial and unregulated industry, and choosing the work that pleases me the most --- and taking payment that is on average about double what I see many other ESL teachers around me making. I don't feel the slightest bit threatened by new teachers entering this field without degrees, or even without certifications. If they're good at their job, WELCOME, and they'll do fine. If the cert is necessary, they'll go and get it, and again, Bravo!

On the contrary, unqualified teachers entering the industry actually *raises* my perceived value by my students and employers.

The only way I'd be crying about it, is if I was ignorant of economics, holding instead a bunch of uninformed and unquestioned prejudices; and if I felt threatened by unqualified "competitors".

I'm grateful that I'm neither.

From the little I've seen of your posts, you seem more qualified than most, and you should do fine. The TEFL cert will get you your most relevant qualification, and I think that in MOST places you'll have very little difficulty getting a job. Russia is certainly a place you could find work very easily, but far from the only place.

[kirez]