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fox1
Joined: 22 Feb 2005
Posts: 268
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 Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 12:15 am Post subject: What do you teach high school students?? |
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Hi,
Help! I'm not sure what I should teach these kids.
They are really low, with an attention span of about 2 seconds, and they can barely answer "What are you doing?".
But I get the vibe from the Japanese teachers, and their awful textbook, that they want me to teach horribly complicated stuff like: "It would have made me so happy to have realized you were impressed by my lunch." 
I don't know whether to teach simple conversation skills starting with the simple present, simple continuous, etc. and build a foundation, or do as the Japanese teachers and "impart" complicated stuff that the kids don't have a hope of producing themselves.  |
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Nismo
Joined: 27 Jul 2004
Posts: 520
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| Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 12:56 am Post subject: |
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Are you a JET? I don't think you'll have much say over what's taught in the classroom, if that's the case. You can try and offer suggestions to the JTE. Request a short pop-quiz (it's imperative that students not be given the chance to study before it) on what the students "should know" from the very beginning steps of English to the current topic in the text book. Whatever they can't do, they obviously need to review.
In this case, it's probably best to preempt the request by making the test yourself, and then submitting it as an example to the JTE when you suggest it being administered.
Don't hope for much, as it really seems like the material to be taught is predetermined and inflexible, so even if the JTE wanted to go back and review the basics, they simply can't do it. |
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markle
Joined: 17 Jan 2003
Posts: 1316
Location: Out of Japan
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| Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 1:28 am Post subject: |
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| I've never been an ALT but is it possible to negotiate some time to teach the kids the basics of conversation. Simple stuff like, greetings, apologies, compliments, etc. In the class give the students basic models to use and then get them to do it themselves. When negotiating with the JTE try to emphasise that you are teaching 'conversation' rather than going over basic grammar. |
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fox1
Joined: 22 Feb 2005
Posts: 268
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| Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 1:34 am Post subject: |
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I'm a T-NET.. you know, alt, jet, net, t-net, whatever.
I am free to teach them whatever I want, for the whole 50 minutes I should add.
So far, OK I guess. I try to get these (mostly) guys, (unwilling to use L2 it's fair to say), to get up and move around and take on characters, etc.
I'd like to get a ball park idea of what I want the students to say.
I come from a conversation school background, and I want them to be able to communicate: "What do you like to do?", "Do you have a cell phone?", "Is it expensive?", "How much is it?", "What do you do on weekends"?, etc, etc. and, of course, really use the language to suit their interests.
But I don't know if I'm on the right track.. |
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azarashi sushi
Joined: 23 Jan 2003
Posts: 562
Location: Shinjuku
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| Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 2:08 am Post subject: |
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| I taught some low(ish) level high school students a couple of years ago and had a lot of success using the books "Now You're Talking" and "Talk A Lot". It's fairly simple conversation type stuff and well laid out, I thought. |
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Glenski
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
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| Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 2:20 am Post subject: |
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Face it. Foreigners' main responsibility is to provide listening practice and give oral communication opportunities. Don't even think about using such complex language as you wrote originally.
Give them chances to interact. You should speak about 10-20% of the time. Have them do surveys or info gaps. Do BINGO to review vocabulary (PM me for details). Get them to do things in small groups so that you don't embarrass individuals in front of the whole class. Use realia. Don't neglect listening skills, so show video clips or play audio clips for practice.
Just keep it simple and enjoyable. Serious will kill the moment and your chances of much success. |
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fluffyhamster
Joined: 13 Mar 2005
Posts: 3292
Location: UK > China > Japan > UK again
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| Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 7:14 am Post subject: Re: What do you teach high school students?? |
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| fox1 wrote: |
| They are really low, with an attention span of about 2 seconds, and they can barely answer "What are you doing?". |
It's hard to know what if any answer would be appropriate without knowing more about the context (that is, this is a pretty confrontational question right off the bat, even if you added a time adverb to refer to a future time rather than the (usually implicit and thus unmentioned) present).
| Quote: |
But I get the vibe from the Japanese teachers, and their awful textbook, that they want me to teach horribly complicated stuff like: "It would have made me so happy to have realized you were impressed by my lunch."
I don't know whether to teach simple conversation skills starting with the simple present, simple continuous, etc. and build a foundation, or do as the Japanese teachers and "impart" complicated stuff that the kids don't have a hope of producing themselves. |
I don't think the more involved of the conditional structures should necessarily be beyond even teenagers, but you have to draw a distinction between simply recognizing the construction and understanding its meaning (generally, and specifically, from whatever verbs are within it), and being able to get to the point (in any human relationship's discourse) where the use would become an imperative, irrepressible (and how many courses, especially in Japan and/or at this level, get students to that point).
But you may be able to forge a compromize between the two pedagogical poles (of conversation versus "detailed", "textual", "analysis") by often reminding students of the basics lurking in the latter, and potentially useful examples of attested, specific lexicogrammar (along with contextual information) illustrating the same structural properties as the drier, less useful Japan-produced textbookese.
Nismo's advice is good (to be proactive, but not unrealistic in your expectations). Be wary though of asking to teach only 'Conversation', however, because you might end up just drilling a jumble of phrases (many less easy, useful or flexible than you'd previously anticipated) - try to get a good coursebook to support you (like AS says). Hmm, not sure why Glenski always seems so opposed to an AET trying to model the language and give it proper functional shape (rather than the JTE), if that language is definitely going to get taught one way or the other (and badly, if we don't try and do anything about it), but maybe I've got bingo or the usual sort of info gaps all wrong LOL (less facetiously, though, I agree with his recommendations of group work and using AV).
Even if you can't always teach the way you want, try to continue thinking and planning as if you had more autonomy and more capable colleagues and students; and whatever you have planned (or actually get to implement) will doubtless not always go quite according to plan (though hopfeully not due to wilful obstruction), in which case you'll be benefitting from not being able to take things for granted (which colleagues in more "priveleged" settings often do); end result is that you become a more flexible, well-rounded and resourceful teacher (that being said, I wouldn't recommend staying in Japan too long, lest you fail to develop professionally to quite the same degree as those teachers elsewhere are perhaps doing...or do more able students give the teacher an "easier" time overall?). |
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Glenski
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
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| Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 12:39 pm Post subject: |
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| not sure why Glenski always seems so opposed to an AET trying to model the language and give it proper functional shape (rather than the JTE), if that language is definitely going to get taught one way or the other |
You have me all wrong, and I don't know why.
We have a "T-NET" (something I've never heard of) claiming he/she doesn't " know whether to teach simple conversation skills starting with the simple present, simple continuous, etc. and build a foundation, or do as the Japanese teachers and "impart" complicated stuff that the kids don't have a hope of producing themselves."
If you don't know what to do as the bare basics, there's a problem, don't you agree, fluffy? JTEs provide the foundation with grammar explanations in L1. As students progress through HS, it gets very tough, and they are asked/required to do grammar translation even though they can barely understand what the teacher tells them, and even though it helps them not one iota in being able to speak (i.e., communicate) it.
Are we native speakers there to "model" the language? Of course! How else can we be dubbed (by me) as people who "provide listening practice and give oral communication opportunities"?
I've taught solo and with a JTE. I've also monitored a solo JTE in action (and in every case noticed 10-20% of students asleep even in the front row). When I team-taught, I was usually in charge, although I preferred an equal approach. My job in both situations was to be the model for the pronunciation, and to provide examples and activities for natural OC.
What we have here with fox's situation seems to be a very chaotic uncontrolled class of low level students that he/she admits not knowing how to teach. Discipline first, and a dose of reality helps. And, we are in the middle of the school year as well. Not a really terrific time to try changing one's style, but better late than never. The key is that they are low level learners and the OP is lost. Go with the easy route, I say. Be the listening model, do info gaps, play BINGO (my way has always kept their attention and stirred participation), get them rocking with surveys and small group activities, etc. Leave the grammar and "complicated stuff" to the JTEs. |
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fluffyhamster
Joined: 13 Mar 2005
Posts: 3292
Location: UK > China > Japan > UK again
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| Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 1:37 pm Post subject: |
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Hi again Glenski.  Perhaps I don't get you so much wrong as spot a chance to encourage a bit more "discussion".
Look, I don't doubt that you are a reasonable teacher, but I do detect a bit of a laissez-faire attitude around here sometimes - always this "leave things to the JTE". I'd agree - IF they were selecting and presenting decent phrases, in convincing contexts...but for the main part, all there is is hand-waving about "meaning" (in lashes of Japanese), and precious little exposure to real English, native or otherwise. Is it any wonder then that students aren't ever able to understand anything other than the pap that is being explained right under their very noses.
But we can agree to disagree that even thinking about changing things won't do the AET any good in not just the short term but the long term too (when they've perhaps moved on from Japan and need to actually start upping the ante in their teaching), and if the situation (JTEs and/or students) at the OPs school are as bad as all that, then maybe sitting back and chilling out with a vodka martini, stirred somewhat but not shaken, would be best. |
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Glenski
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
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| Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 9:57 pm Post subject: |
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Laissez-faire suggests I don't care, which is also incorrect.
When foreigners can teach grammar in L1, I am all for them doing so. Otherwise, despite their teaching style, JTEs are the better choice.
(That doesn't mean I don't slip in a little explanation now and then to reinforce what they should have learned... |
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GambateBingBangBOOM
Joined: 04 Nov 2003
Posts: 2021
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 12:16 am Post subject: |
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| Glenski wrote: |
Give them chances to interact. You should speak about 10-20% of the time. Have them do surveys or info gaps. Do BINGO to review vocabulary (PM me for details). Get them to do things in small groups so that you don't embarrass individuals in front of the whole class. Use realia. Don't neglect listening skills, so show video clips or play audio clips for practice.
Just keep it simple and enjoyable. Serious will kill the moment and your chances of much success. |
My school expects native speaking teachers to develop currucula for every class (but without the help of a textbook). Japanese teachers want the native teachers to use thematic units, not just BINGO for vocabulary. Students have tonnes of chances to interact. They refuse to take them. Asking students to think of things (like in 'think of places you like to go on the weekend" or even "what do you like to do in your free time?"as opposed to memorizing vocabulary will automatically result in blank looks and students turning off.
I think it's a huge problem, and it's one I've seen in many schools here. JTEs accept that students 'cannot imagine' and create a highly controlled environment so that they can get things done. What this means is that the students never have to 'think' (of things to say or how to communicate etc). If students are told to write a word six times by their teacher, they write it six times. They do not see that they are doing it in order to learn that word, though.
So in oral communication classes where there is a native English speaker as the main teacher (the Japanese Teachers of English offer little to no input in lesson development, curriculum development and often don't even look at the lesson plan before going into class, only to say they don't like it right after the class) the point of the class needs to be for the students to use the English grammar they've learned in their grammar class by speaking and listening. They refuse to speak, or to think of things to say, resulting in a course that has very little point unless it gets dummed down to a gaijin clown giving them 'prompts' that are more or less a script (so they aren't actually learning anything), and bingo games for vocabulary. That's not really a class because they aren't actually thinking. It's the appearance of a class.
Then people complain that Japanese students can't use English communicatively very well. |
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Glenski
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
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| Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 1:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| My school expects native speaking teachers to develop currucula for every class (but without the help of a textbook). |
Did that 4 years in a row in a private HS. Most of the time, it was someone else that planned my syllabus, usually someone who had never even taught the class! Wonderful system. Thankfully, in university things are different for me.
However, even with no textbook, one can get by. Yeah, it's a nightmare with photocopies, but if you choose a textbook anyway and use it to ... coughcopyrightprotectioncough... supplement your course, you can do it.
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| Japanese teachers want the native teachers to use thematic units, not just BINGO for vocabulary. |
I hope that wasn't meant to suggest that BINGO is all I ever did, because that'd be dead wrong. BINGO is just one item in my black bag, and in many other teachers'. I've team taught with JTEs and planned my own lessons. Didn't matter because in the end, the JTEs contributed zilch and just stood there in awe of whatever the native speakers came up with. Fortunately I worked with good JTEs in the respect that their English was better than average, and once we native speakers had made a plan, they went along with it enthusiastically. [So, part of this agrees with Gambate, and part of it has an opposing experience.]
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| Asking students to think of things (like in 'think of places you like to go on the weekend" or even "what do you like to do in your free time?"as opposed to memorizing vocabulary will automatically result in blank looks and students turning off. |
I know. That's why you don't teach like that, get it? Vocabulary is only acquired through repeated exposure and usage, so it's up to teachers to develop materials that expose kids to new words 1)often, and 2)in entertaining ways.
Forget "what do you think of...?" activities. Or, ar the very least, get kids to work in teams/groups with plenty of setup before you try prying such stuff out of them. It CAN be done, even with individuals, too. Many teachers these days are using CALL techniques, such as getting kids to discuss book in discussion room format instead of writing book reports, with great success. That's just ONE example. |
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GambateBingBangBOOM
Joined: 04 Nov 2003
Posts: 2021
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 11:37 pm Post subject: |
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| Thanks! |
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