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matador
Joined: 07 Mar 2003
Posts: 281
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 Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2007 8:00 am Post subject: How long since the monthly basic increased? |
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Just a topic that came up with a couple of comrades: How long HAS the basic been set at 250,000 a month? I said for about 15 yrs...she said about 20 yrs. Who is closer? And...c`mon....20 yrs...does this happen in other professions or is it only EFL in Japan!?
Finally, what is a REALISTIC pay rise to receive each year...I said about 10%...she said about 5%. Any experiences here? |
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furiousmilksheikali
Joined: 31 Jul 2006
Posts: 1660
Location: In a coffee shop, splitting a 30,000 yen tab with Sekiguchi.
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| Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2007 8:04 am Post subject: |
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Monthly basic increase? 
Pay rise? |
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GambateBingBangBOOM
Joined: 04 Nov 2003
Posts: 2021
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2007 8:36 am Post subject: |
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| It's been going DOWN for years! 250,000Y is no longer the minimum. |
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Glenski
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
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| Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2007 12:03 pm Post subject: |
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Pay raise? Who gets that? Darned few, especially in eikaiwa. What we should get and what we do get are totally different.
As for the original question itself, what does it really matter? |
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Jon Taylor
Joined: 09 Mar 2005
Posts: 238
Location: Tokyo
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| Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2007 12:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Glenski wrote: |
Pay raise? Who gets that? Darned few, especially in eikaiwa. What we should get and what we do get are totally different.
As for the original question itself, what does it really matter? |
Well if your worth your salt to your eikawa then you should be looking at a 10,000~20,000 pay increase per year.
First year - 250,000
Second year - 270,000
Third year - 290,000
If your eikawa isn't offering you such rises then I would suggest to you all that you move to a different company......one that appreciates the value of experience. |
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matador
Joined: 07 Mar 2003
Posts: 281
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| Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2007 12:35 pm Post subject: |
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| Thanks, Jon. Good solid answer, mate. |
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Yawarakaijin
Joined: 20 Jan 2006
Posts: 504
Location: Middle of Nagano
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| Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2007 2:01 pm Post subject: |
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I am paid hourly, so at the end of the month it works out to substantially more than 250,000 yen per month, but my basic minimum gauranteed salary has gone from 250,000 to 270,000 in two years. There are companies out there that offer pay raises.
They are hard to find but company gigs seem to be the way to go nowadays. Make contacts, market yourself as an in-house language teacher to large to midsize companies ( actually small is ok too) and there is money to be made. I'm in Kanagawa now but will be moving to Nagano-ken next week. Five to six classes a day (four days a week) plus walking around chatting to the employees is going to be netting me close to 400,000 yen per month. There are other options than eikaiwas or colleges. |
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Glenski
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
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| Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2007 9:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| Well if your worth your salt to your eikawa |
That is a slap in my face. Many of us indeed are worth our salt, but the economy forces some employers to just keep offering the same salary year round, regardless of talent. You don't want the long version of this (my) story, but I suggest watching how you write.
In a perfect world, we'd all be eligible for pay raises. This is not a perfect world, and moving on is not always an option. |
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Khyron
Joined: 10 Mar 2006
Posts: 291
Location: Tokyo Metro City
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| Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2007 11:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Glenski wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Well if your worth your salt to your eikawa |
That is a slap in my face. Many of us indeed are worth our salt, but the economy forces some employers to just keep offering the same salary year round, regardless of talent. You don't want the long version of this (my) story, but I suggest watching how you write. |
I wnna hear the long version! |
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furiousmilksheikali
Joined: 31 Jul 2006
Posts: 1660
Location: In a coffee shop, splitting a 30,000 yen tab with Sekiguchi.
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| Posted: Thu Jul 19, 2007 12:07 am Post subject: |
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| Jon Taylor wrote: |
| Glenski wrote: |
Pay raise? Who gets that? Darned few, especially in eikaiwa. What we should get and what we do get are totally different.
As for the original question itself, what does it really matter? |
Well if your worth your salt to your eikawa then you should be looking at a 10,000~20,000 pay increase per year.
First year - 250,000
Second year - 270,000
Third year - 290,000
If your eikawa isn't offering you such rises then I would suggest to you all that you move to a different company......one that appreciates the value of experience. |
Matador, this is not a solid answer even if Jon Taylor essentially appears to agree with your opinion (that pay rises are at 10 percent a year). The fact is that very few eikaiwas offer any kind of substantial pay rises. The Big Four allow for minimal pay rises if you consistently perform a number of tasks which are all but impossible, sales records rather than teaching records are often prized more highly, paperwork is often pored over for the slightest discrepency, any black mark against your name such as an unironed shirt is continually dragged out as evidence for denying you a pay rise et cetera...
This applies too with a lot of private high schools where full-time and part-time staff are often having bonuses cut back with no regard for experience but a higher regard for lower student numbers. You may have heard about the decrease in the Japanese birth rate, don't you think that will reflect in some way the number of students who end up being admitted to schools?
You may also have heard that Japan has been going through a protracted period of deflation, and if you have been in the country for a while you will have noticed that there has hardly been any increase in the price of things here. In most countries pay rises are a necessity for those trying to keep ahead of inflation but without such an obligation here in Japan, how many companies are going to reach deeper into their pockets out of the kindness of their heart?
The increase in dispatch companies has also led to more competition for those already in employment. You'd be foolish to think that being in Japan for a few more years than the last guy off the plane is going to count for a lot among these companies. Often it counts for less. There was even a case recently of a woman who was let go from a private high school because her ten years in Japan had made her appear "less foreign" to her employees. Experience didn't count for much there.
Jon Taylor's posts have often been quite smug in the past in which he claims to be on salaries that would make tigerwood jealous. You notice that he didn't provide any examples at all of the companies that dole out the kind of pay rises that you, matador, think is a realistic rate. It is not a realistic one at all if you are judging realistic by the actual situation in a good 80 per cent of cases.
To answer your first question last; 250, 000 yen is not a minimum basic (if I understand your meaning correctly). It was once, but now you will find jobs advertised at a far lower rate than that. Companies no longer need to pay you that in order for you to qualify for a visa. So it seems that you have misjudged the whole notion that salaries should inexorably move upwards as the truth in the majority of cases is that they have gone decidedly the other way. |
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sidjameson
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 629
Location: osaka
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| Posted: Thu Jul 19, 2007 12:19 am Post subject: |
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Even my univeristy enforced a pay cut a couple of years back. It was only .5% I think, but still.
I do though find it amazing that Japan can still attract the teachers as Korea offers far greater chances now at saving money in the teachers home currency. |
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Jon Taylor
Joined: 09 Mar 2005
Posts: 238
Location: Tokyo
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| Posted: Thu Jul 19, 2007 2:02 am Post subject: |
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| furiousmilksheikali wrote: |
| Jon Taylor wrote: |
| Glenski wrote: |
Pay raise? Who gets that? Darned few, especially in eikaiwa. What we should get and what we do get are totally different.
As for the original question itself, what does it really matter? |
Well if your worth your salt to your eikawa then you should be looking at a 10,000~20,000 pay increase per year.
First year - 250,000
Second year - 270,000
Third year - 290,000
If your eikawa isn't offering you such rises then I would suggest to you all that you move to a different company......one that appreciates the value of experience. |
Matador, this is not a solid answer even if Jon Taylor essentially appears to agree with your opinion (that pay rises are at 10 percent a year). The fact is that very few eikaiwas offer any kind of substantial pay rises. The Big Four allow for minimal pay rises if you consistently perform a number of tasks which are all but impossible, sales records rather than teaching records are often prized more highly, paperwork is often pored over for the slightest discrepency, any black mark against your name such as an unironed shirt is continually dragged out as evidence for denying you a pay rise et cetera...
This applies too with a lot of private high schools where full-time and part-time staff are often having bonuses cut back with no regard for experience but a higher regard for lower student numbers. You may have heard about the decrease in the Japanese birth rate, don't you think that will reflect in some way the number of students who end up being admitted to schools?
You may also have heard that Japan has been going through a protracted period of deflation, and if you have been in the country for a while you will have noticed that there has hardly been any increase in the price of things here. In most countries pay rises are a necessity for those trying to keep ahead of inflation but without such an obligation here in Japan, how many companies are going to reach deeper into their pockets out of the kindness of their heart?
The increase in dispatch companies has also led to more competition for those already in employment. You'd be foolish to think that being in Japan for a few more years than the last guy off the plane is going to count for a lot among these companies. Often it counts for less. There was even a case recently of a woman who was let go from a private high school because her ten years in Japan had made her appear "less foreign" to her employees. Experience didn't count for much there.
Jon Taylor's posts have often been quite smug in the past in which he claims to be on salaries that would make tigerwood jealous. You notice that he didn't provide any examples at all of the companies that dole out the kind of pay rises that you, matador, think is a realistic rate. It is not a realistic one at all if you are judging realistic by the actual situation in a good 80 per cent of cases.
To answer your first question last; 250, 000 yen is not a minimum basic (if I understand your meaning correctly). It was once, but now you will find jobs advertised at a far lower rate than that. Companies no longer need to pay you that in order for you to qualify for a visa. So it seems that you have misjudged the whole notion that salaries should inexorably move upwards as the truth in the majority of cases is that they have gone decidedly the other way. |
Quite smug eh ?? I really don't understand what you mean my furry friend.
I merely suggest that if you are working in Japan and you are in your second or third year then if a pay rise hasen't come your way then you're obviously not worth your salt.
Either that or you must have very poor negotiation skills.
No matter how poor the economy or how poor your eikawa is doing, an annual pay rise is a must.
My answer was indeed a solid answer. In my experience, the rises I gave out are realistic and reflect the rises that I was able to negotiate and indeed reflected the rises that many....no all of my friends were able to get. They work for different companies too.
It staggers me that anyone would still be on the same salary after a couple of years in the same position. Their employer must be laughing all the way to the bank. |
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markle
Joined: 17 Jan 2003
Posts: 1316
Location: Out of Japan
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| Posted: Thu Jul 19, 2007 2:06 am Post subject: |
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| sidjameson wrote: |
| Korea offers far greater chances now at saving money in the teachers home currency. |
The Koreans have to because otherwise few would go there. Japan's basic salary rate is where it is because people still want to come here and stay here regardless of how much they make.
Looking at some of the comments here and on the exchange rate thread I really dispair at the ignorance of basic economic principals displayed by seemingly tertiary educated people.
Last edited by markle on Thu Jul 19, 2007 2:17 am; edited 1 time in total |
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markle
Joined: 17 Jan 2003
Posts: 1316
Location: Out of Japan
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| Posted: Thu Jul 19, 2007 2:17 am Post subject: |
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| Jon Taylor wrote: |
I merely suggest that if you are working in Japan and you are in your second or third year then if a pay rise hasen't come your way then you're obviously not worth your salt.
Either that or you must have very poor negotiation skills.
No matter how poor the economy or how poor your eikawa is doing, an annual pay rise is a must.
My answer was indeed a solid answer. In my experience, the rises I gave out are realistic and reflect the rises that I was able to negotiate and indeed reflected the rises that many....no all of my friends were able to get. They work for different companies too.
It staggers me that anyone would still be on the same salary after a couple of years in the same position. Their employer must be laughing all the way to the bank. |
Well bully for you Jonny-boy but those pay rise are a result of your performance, negotiations, and high opinion of yourself, not a given as your hyperbole might suggest. What you have glossed over is what would happen if your school doesn't want to give you a pay rise. Walking out the door is a risky strategy in this economic environment and the opportunity costs may not make it worth it (unless you value ego boosting very highly as an economic cost) |
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furiousmilksheikali
Joined: 31 Jul 2006
Posts: 1660
Location: In a coffee shop, splitting a 30,000 yen tab with Sekiguchi.
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| Posted: Thu Jul 19, 2007 2:27 am Post subject: |
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Jon, the point is that the pay rises you are talking about don't apply to any more than a tiny percentage of schools. For you to claim that as the norm is a gross distortion of the truth. The reason why I said you were smug is because you say that you are on a great salary and can expect pay rises every year but being an insuffrable braggart you can't help pointing out that you work for a very exceptional school.
| Quote: |
I teach at a private high school which is considered to be one of the very top high schools in Japan and is a feeder school for Tokyo University.
I have to attend regular meetings as well as attend clubs.....the same as the native staff. You may be one of the teachers that "goes in, teaches and leaves" but my position is certainly nothing like that.
The Japanese staff are paid 420,00 yen per month.
How do I know this ?
During one of my many meetings with the principal we dicscussed salaries and he was the one that notified me of the salary of the newly qualified teachers. I was very surprised and wouldn't have believed it myself had it not been in black and white in front of me.
All of our salaries including my own are around the same 420,000 mark. |
http://forums.eslcafe.com/job/viewtopic.php?t=51486&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0
Yet you had already given yourself away in an earlier thread in which you complained that English teachers weren't getting nearly enough money. When asking your students what the average wage in Japan is you posted this:
| Quote: |
I have asked my students about this and I get differing answers.
The popular answer seems to be 6,000,000 Yen per annum which translates to around 450,000 per month with 2 bonuses of around the same amount.
This seems very high and would make our EFL field a very below average salary. |
I'm not sure why you would ask your high school students such questions and why you think they should know the answer but apparently after finding out that you were in a very low income bracket you decided to put those great negotiating skills to good use and now it is you who is laughing all the way to the bank. Either that or you're simply lying about one thing or another.
http://forums.eslcafe.com/job/viewtopic.php?t=49590&highlight= |
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