Job Discussion Forums

[Susan WW]

Anyone who has been working in KSA / arab countries to share this info with me.
Countries I`ve been to,
fully furnished apartment on campus (currently , for the first time, sharing a 5 bedroom house with one female teacher, in residential area)
TV set with cable/sky connection, landline phone and connection, internet connection and PC, whitewares

new
beddings, household appliances ,pots and pans even chopping board
( its so welcoming when provided with body shampoo, and dishwasing liquid)


lunch provided for all staff (international and local food)
( some even provides breakfast)

utilities (receipts attached)deducted from salary.
I never have ideas where to pay these bills.

transportation provided (school van for teachers) or actual costs reimbursed

lunch or dinner parties ( christmas/ sports day,etc) non-locals only, or
all staff
day trips or overnight trips (employer`s expense)


health care 100% ,or I join Government Health care 70% covered

wish to learn local standards before negotiations


Arigatoo

[Bebsi]

[Bob Gorn]

Susan, you're going to get whatever they have, regardless of what you "negotiate" with them. They will tell you "yes, yes, of course" to whatever silly thing you request of them, and then it will never appear.

My advice to you,[ if you must go, is to find out exactly what they usually offer and then ask yourself if you can be happy with that.

KSA is not Japan and no one will be intimidated by your presence. Regardless of what they tell you, you are just another foreign guest worker once you get here. And they will discard you quickly if you prove to be too high maintenance.

Your job in Japan sounds great. Why don't you just keep it?

[Susan WW]

In Japan, some employers do not provide everything, and new teachers end up settting up their own accomodation (rent plus deposit, key money, gift money to owner), and buying all houshold things. Buying is not a problem, but disposing them of is in Japan. I know teachers who ship everything home on completion of Contract, but I dont feel attached to materials that much.
In othere countries, some teachers do not get provided accomodation or anything.
If one is in TEFL industry long enough regardless of location, and if one has experienced seeing more than one and only contract in lifetime, they should know better.
There are always rooms for negotiation, just want to make sure both parties are on the same page.
Are you implying that Saudi employers are dishonest and just saying things they dont mean??Then what are Contracts for??

[Bob Gorn]

I do not mean to imply that Saudis are any more dishonest than others. However, there is a cultural aspect to this that many people interpret as dishonest. Saudis seek to avoid embarrassment and find it uncomfortable to negotiate with a foreign female. Therefore, they will hedge or even misrepresent the truth to avoid conflict. This is true in many countries, even among the Japanese as I understand. However, the Japanese are scrupulously honest in the end, and even go overboard to make sure you are pleased, whereas in KSA it is entirely possible to be misled and even cheated. It would be naive to think that you will be treated the same in Saudi Arabia as you are in Japan.

Shipping things home from Japan is prohibitively expensive, whereas shipping from KSA is quite reasonable. But what does this have to do with your original post? I thought you were asking about possible negotiation items for your contract, not how to get rid of things when you leave. Much as I would like to help you, I find it hard to discern the purpose of your posts.

Than what are contracts for? - you ask. In my experience, in the Gulf, contracts are not truly contracts as most people understand them. They are guidelines that your employer may disregard at his will/convenience. They do not protect you from anything or guarantee you anything.

You can forget about negotiating for food/entertainment. Outside of BAE, I don't think anyone will offer you food, although there may be a small amount provided in your flat for your arrival. The vast majority of people have to pay their own utilities. You may be given a transportation allowance, but most employers will leave you on your own for that. (Yes, even for a single woman who cannot drive legally.)

You can expect a reasonably well-furnished apartment with basic necessities. I would worry more about the condition of the accommodation than anything else. Is it in a compound? How old is it? Is it of safe construction? Is there good security? Do the appliances work? Is it clean enough to be habitable? These are more the issues that teachers in KSA worry about.

[Susan WW]

[Bob Gorn]

Unfortunately, Susan, you are going into the one part of the world where you will always be considered a female first, and part of the team second. There is no getting around that in KSA.

[Susan WW]

[Bob Gorn]

I've seen employers in many countries provide unsafe, shabby apartments to teachers. It happens all the time in Korea, for example. It doesn't always happen in KSA, but I know people who have been put in accommodations that were so old and dilapidated that the roof was actually falling in on them. Maintenance is not a strong point in KSA, so make sure you'll be put up in a fairly new place.

Susan, we're not telling you all this to scare you or make fun of you. Saudi Arabia is a place that you really have to go into with eyes wide open. For your own sake, please take the warnings on this board seriously.

[Susan WW]

[trapezius]

You still haven't said which city and which university.

Depending on city, you might need some of that light winter clothing. In some places in KSA you need heavy winter clothing!

[Bebsi]

At this stage, one can only assume that SusanWW is a troll!!

No one could be that naive, stupid or arrogant, nor could they ignore and indeed, blatantly contradict the well-meant advice of so many others.

Why are we bothering with her, anyway, as she clearly won't listen to anyone?

[Bob Gorn]

I give up now. I've tried to be nice and to help you when others have given up. What are you rambling on about?

Yes, as a male living in the West, I see women's clothing and I realize that clothing differs. What does that have to do with our discussion?

I've heard that they sell some interesting hallucingenic mushrooms in Japan. Have you been visiting the mushroom shops?

Skincare?!? Please find another forum to discuss this issue. Accommodation is an appropriate topic here, but not skincare products. Don't you have any female friends to talk to? Any friends at all?

[Susan WW]

[isabel]