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Stephen Jones · Joined: 21 Feb 2003 Posts: 4124

----"My point is: It would be nearly impossible for an English speaker to learn Chinese if the Chinese instructor spoke no English at all."------

Why?

Cleopatra · Posted: Sat May 24, 2008 8:15 am Post subject:

15yearsinQ8 · Joined: 17 Oct 2006 Posts: 462 Location: kuwait

i took a french conversation class in high school in which NO ENGLISH WAS SPOKEN BY THE TEACHER and she corrected/translated any english utterances by students into french then refused to acknowledge the same utterance subsequent times
maybe she asked the class in french 'what does that mean in french, i told you...'
we were even given french names and identies - i was maria the shop keeper
forget physics and calculus - this was the toughest course i ever, ever, ever took - i was admittedly lost most of the time - maybe because i enjoyed napping in high school
when i studied education and language learning in college i realized this method was 'total immersion'
like most methods of language instruction it has a place, role, strengths/weaknesses and it can definately work (or fail)

having said that, a teacher that knows the students' L1 has definate advantages from rapport, classroom management, error identification, etc if they are able to utilize these advantages
knowledge (of the L1) is power - only if you use it or if others know/think you have it

15yearsinQ8 · Joined: 17 Oct 2006 Posts: 462 Location: kuwait

i also took 4 years of high school Latin - taught mostly through 'grammar translation method' in which no Latin was spoken or read (but we did do drills - amo, amus, amatum - etc or something) we did translations tilll we were blue in the face and if you think verb tenses can be weird in english - they can be weirder in latin and let's not talk about cases now.... oh brother..

i enjoyed the class but didn't think i was really picking the 'language' up
until many years later i heard a commencement address in latin and understood it - funny though - i 'saw' the words in my head like the many cicero passeges i translated

point is one can learn a language this way as well

lall · Joined: 30 Dec 2006 Posts: 358

Stephen Jones · Joined: 21 Feb 2003 Posts: 4124

sheikh radlinrol · Joined: 30 Jan 2007 Posts: 1222 Location: Spain

Cleopatra · Posted: Tue May 27, 2008 1:46 pm Post subject:

I don't think the argument is about whether or not it is possible to teach a language without knowing the students' L1. Rather, I think the OP was asking if a knowledge of Arabic (or whatever the students' language may be) is beneficial to foreign teachers. My own view is that, while it is not essential, it is certainly very helpful.

mishmumkin · Joined: 01 Sep 2007 Posts: 929

ghost · Joined: 30 Jan 2003 Posts: 1693 Location: Saudi Arabia

Basic Chinese conversation is not that hard, as the grammar system does not use tenses. To show time, you use word markers like 'le' for example for something you have done - e.g. 'Wo chifan le' - 'I ate'

So, learning to speak basic 'putonghua' is relatively easy, provided that you pronounce the tones correctly. You need to pay attention to the tones. Having a good ear helps.

The attrition rate for foreigners who learn Mandarin is very high, because in the first few weeks when they practice what they have learned, many times their Chinese interlocuters will not understand what they are saying. This can be very discouraging, but if you are willing to battle on, your ear will eventually register and reproduce the tones more or less correctly, or enough for your interlocuters to understand what you are saying!

Learning Chinese characters, on the other hand, takes years of assiduous study. For those too lazy to bother - you can use 'pinyin' which is the romanized system to represent the Chinese sounds.

I worked in Taiwan in 2005-2006, and after 8 months there, could get by in convesation for most of my personal daily needs.

Finally, Chinese has an ill deserved reputation as being a difficult language to learn. This is not the case, when you take the above into account. Mormon missionaries usually attain relative fluency in spoken Mandarin within about 6 months. It certainly helps that they are out on the streets all day talking in Mandarin.

Ghost

Stephen Jones · Joined: 21 Feb 2003 Posts: 4124

@ Cleopatra

The OP is not saying it is impossible. Other posters are.

lall · Joined: 30 Dec 2006 Posts: 358

pat blake · Joined: 21 Nov 2006 Posts: 31 Location: Kuwait

I taught in Turkey for 3 years to 6th graders who knew no English. I didn't have a problem communicating. Frankly, if I learned Arabic in Kuwait the ONLY people I'd be speaking it with would be my students, which would be defeating the purpose of teaching them English. Sales clerks, taxi drivers, etc. all speak English. Maybe learning Hindi or Tagalog would make more sense in the Gulf. Few of us make friends with Gulf residents (at least as far as I and my friends go) and this does not reflect on them or us, it is just the way it is.

scot47 · Joined: 10 Jan 2003 Posts: 15343

Even at my advanced age I am still amazed at the number of people who teach EFL without ever having learnt a foreign language themselves.

As for learning Basic Arabic only a small minority of EFLers in KSA even try. I know teachers who have been her 10 or 20 years who have ZERO ARABIC, who cannot even read the numbers when they are written Arabic style !

Deadbeats - EFL is full of them !