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Grammar Question
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SeasonedVet



Joined: 28 Aug 2006
Posts: 236
Location: Japan

PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 2:07 am    Post subject: Grammar Question Reply with quote

The following were two of four suggested answers on a test paper. You have to choose one answer. Which one is correct?

Complete the sentence:

I will never forget
b) meeting him
c) having met him
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Ryu Hayabusa



Joined: 08 Jan 2008
Posts: 182

PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 2:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

"I will never forget having met him."

That seems correct to me.
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Mapleblondie



Joined: 29 May 2008
Posts: 93
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 3:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I definitely agree...I think that the progressive past tense (I think that's what it's called) should be used when talking about something that happened in the past, whereas "meeting him" refers more to the present.
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Never Ceased To Be Amazed



Joined: 22 Oct 2004
Posts: 3500
Location: Shhh...don't talk to me...I'm playin' dead...

PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 3:48 am    Post subject: Re: Grammar Question Reply with quote

SeasonedVet wrote:
The following were two of four suggested answers on a test paper. You have to choose one answer. Which one is correct?

Complete the sentence:

I will never forget
b) meeting him
c) having met him


Oh, God! Here it comes...!

NCTBA
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BobbyBan



Joined: 05 Feb 2008
Posts: 201

PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 8:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Try susbtituting the sentence.

I went to a karaoke box and sang "Yesterday".

b) I will never forget singing "Yesterday" in front of all those people.

or

c) I will never forget having sung "Yesterday" in front of all those people.

I think b) sounds better. How was the question worded? Choose the most appropriate answer? If so, then b) gets my vote.

In terms of frequency of use, Google seems to agree with me as b) shows up 222 results and c) shows up 3 (including this thread). Not completely scientific and I don't have a very good explanation for why b) is better than c) but there you go.
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markle



Joined: 17 Jan 2003
Posts: 1316
Location: Out of Japan

PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 5:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Both seem correct to me depending on the context.
b) is about the present; while c) is about something that happened in the past.

Really as a sentence fragment there is no way of telling which is 'correct'.
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chechevitsa



Joined: 17 Oct 2005
Posts: 22

PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 8:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd guess that they're looking for c); I think the "error" would be that "I will never forget meeting him" implies that it was the whole process of your introduction that you remember, whereas the fact of having met him is more accurately what people remember.

in short, "meeting him" refers to a (past) ongoing situation, while "having met him" refers to the completed event. while both are probably acceptable to most native speakers in a natural context, I think the second is more likely to pass grammarians' tests.
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fluffyhamster



Joined: 13 Mar 2005
Posts: 3292
Location: UK > China > Japan > UK again

PostPosted: Sat Jun 07, 2008 1:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd say they're both a bit crap. You can remember people generally, or specific, memorable occassions (I'll never forget the day we first met/meeting him after work each day and strolling back through the park), but there's nothing "remarkable" about just 'meeting him' or 'having met him'. But hey, if we're going to continue looking at fragments, then I might as well throw in this to help confuse matters:

1. I'll never forget meeting him.
2. I'll never forget, having met him, blah blah blah ( > I'll never forget (having met him) blah blah blah ( > 1. > The expanded contexts in my opening para above)).

That is, 'meeting him' appears to be more "required", but 'having met him' could well be incidental (and would probably be assumed/not "repeatedly" stated anyway in ongoing discourse).
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chechevitsa



Joined: 17 Oct 2005
Posts: 22

PostPosted: Sat Jun 07, 2008 5:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

what if it's a celebrity? then the fact of meeting him might be the most memorable thing about the experience (and not necessarily connected to a continued acquaintance).
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Never Ceased To Be Amazed



Joined: 22 Oct 2004
Posts: 3500
Location: Shhh...don't talk to me...I'm playin' dead...

PostPosted: Sat Jun 07, 2008 6:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ahhggg!!! Evil or Very Mad

NCTBA
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fluffyhamster



Joined: 13 Mar 2005
Posts: 3292
Location: UK > China > Japan > UK again

PostPosted: Sat Jun 07, 2008 11:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

chechevitsa wrote:
what if it's a celebrity? then the fact of meeting him might be the most memorable thing about the experience (and not necessarily connected to a continued acquaintance).


Unless the celebrity has arranged to meet (and how often does that happen!), it's probably more a case of you just seeing (i.e. catching a glimpse) of him or her (and him or her remaining unaware of your existence).
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Kootvela



Joined: 22 Oct 2007
Posts: 513
Location: Lithuania

PostPosted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 7:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Both are correct.
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fluffyhamster



Joined: 13 Mar 2005
Posts: 3292
Location: UK > China > Japan > UK again

PostPosted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 11:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kootvela wrote:
Both are correct.


Yes. It would be hard to choose one over the other in a decontextualized test.
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BobbyBan



Joined: 05 Feb 2008
Posts: 201

PostPosted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 2:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

fluffyhamster wrote:
Kootvela wrote:
Both are correct.


Yes. It would be hard to choose one over the other in a decontextualized test.


Certainly, that is why I asked Seasoned Vet if he/she wouldn't mind posting the wording of the question.

Another idea is to put this up on the "General Discussion" forum and see what a wider audience can make of it.

Seasoned Vet, I don't know a lot about the etiquette on these things but would you mind posting back to show that you haven't forgotten all about us. It would be nice, I think.
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chechevitsa



Joined: 17 Oct 2005
Posts: 22

PostPosted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 5:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

fluffyhamster wrote:

Unless the celebrity has arranged to meet (and how often does that happen!), it's probably more a case of you just seeing (i.e. catching a glimpse) of him or her (and him or her remaining unaware of your existence).


what about book signings, or musicians who really make time for fan autographs? "celebrity" doesn't only mean actor/socialite, does it? I'll never forget having met Billy Bragg, for example. of course, when I went to type out that sentence, what wanted to spill off my fingers was definitely "I'll never forget meeting him." but then my spoken language is riddled with so-called errors...
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