Job Discussion Forums

Englishish · Joined: 01 Oct 2009 Posts: 78

Teaching ESOL at the Further Education level in the UK is pretty confusing! I keep checking every year or so and it always seems there's something just around the corner that they're planning to change. I taught ESOL in a college in 2004 with just a CELTA though my contract stated that I would have to get a further qualification within 2 years of being there (which I didn't do because it was the wrong time of year and I didn't stay 2 years - sorry, I can't remember the name of the qualification.)

In 2004 they were talking about making the DELTA compatible with the other qualification by adding on some extention module(s) to the DELTA which judging from the remarks here, they haven't done yet. On the other hand, I'm sure I heard/read someone say that they had done this qualification but then found it difficult to get jobs abroad because they didn't have a CELTA certificate - even though the other qualification is at a higher level! Employers abroad were not impressed with this unknown qualification - even though it was required to teach ESOL in colleges in the UK!

Having taught in the UK and abroad I can understand the differences between them. (For example, there are often huge literacy issues when teaching in the UK - some ESOL students aren't literate in their own language and these are in the same class as people who are doctors in their own country.) However, I think they are similar enough to have a more integrated system for teaching qualifications.

I'm still no closer to understanding what is required and if I get a DELTA (which as someone correctly pointed out, is NOT a required qualification to teach in colleges) or an MA, if there would be further qualifications I'd have to do. I've sent a couple of emails to education websites so I'll have to wait and see if I get a response (but I've tried and failed in the past!) I even asked the DOS of a summer school in the UK this year and they said they had no idea about it! (Though admittedly, a summer school and a college isn't exactly the same thing!)

SueH · Joined: 01 Feb 2003 Posts: 1022 Location: Northern Italy

Englishish, your experience chimes with mine. I taught in 2003/4? with a CELTA and some summer school experience (including in an FE college), and then did part one of City&Guilds 4707 (I think) whilst there, but was unable to do part 2 due to the usual change from year to year in FE college organisation/contracts/policies/courses/staffing/you name it.

Currently I'm abroad but will probably return at some stage and will need to earn at least a little bit to supplement other income. Currently shelf-stacking at Tesco seems a more viable option.

Englishish · Joined: 01 Oct 2009 Posts: 78

That's the one! The City and Guilds 4707 (which was a level 4 qualification). That was pretty new in 2003/4. Now that's been replaced with the diploma DTE(E)LLS which is level 5 and is part time over 2 years!

It looks like the add on for DELTA qualified people has been put in place so you don't need to repeat what you've already done but there's no indication how much work/time is required to do that. (I wonder if the people who qualified for the 4707 will have to do an add-on also?)

And you STILL don't have QTS after doing that!

Mind you, it will probably all change again in the future! I wish they'd stop moving the goal posts! As it stands at the moment, I'm not even sure if it it a good thing that I didn't get the 4707 out of the way when I first started teaching or whether it's better that I waited!

Englishish · Joined: 01 Oct 2009 Posts: 78

More info on DTE(E)LLS:

http://www.cambridgeesol.org/exams/teaching-awards/dte_e_lls.html

SueH · Joined: 01 Feb 2003 Posts: 1022 Location: Northern Italy

I'm not sure of the latest situation, but FE teachers last I heard were a bit miffed that they were trying to introduce teaching to under 16s in FE colleges: ie: not students attending purely voluntarily, but the salaries weren't going to increase. If people wanted to teach under 16s they'd teach in schools and get the appropriate pay.

Given that you can get QTS via the graduate teaching scheme (I think it's called) how does that tie in with the amount of training on the DTEetc scheme?

As you say it's confusing and I'm glad I don't really have to confront the issue at the moment.

Englishish · Joined: 01 Oct 2009 Posts: 78

Under 15s in college? I don't want to teach children! I'd better start looking at what's needed for teaching at university in the future then!

Also, as you pointed out, the students would not be attending voluntarily. The best part about teaching ESOL in a college in the UK was that the students who didn't want to learn stopped coming pretty quick leaving me with the eager students! (Some of whom were working all night shifts and still doing their best to come in to lessons the next morning!)

I'd best do a google search and see what I can find. I hope nothing comes of it because they might not increase the money as a result of having under 15s in the classroom but they'll probably change the required qualifications again!

Like you, I'm relieved I don't need to think about it just yet.

norwalkesl · Joined: 22 Oct 2009 Posts: 366 Location: Ch-Ch-Ch-Ch-China

Englishish · Joined: 01 Oct 2009 Posts: 78

Point taken but if the 11 people with negative experiences are all talking about the same places, then it's useful info to have!

coledavis · Joined: 21 Jun 2003 Posts: 1838

Phil_b · Joined: 14 Oct 2003 Posts: 239 Location: Back in London

Chris_Crossley

Based on a rather unpleasant, time-wasting and ultimately money-wasting experience, I have learned that there is at least one university in England (which shall remain nameless) whose staff absolutely insist that one has the DELTA/Trinity Diploma in TESOL (or equivalent) before even considering applicants for a part-time hourly-paid job.

Even though I have never studied for the qualification, I still applied for a job at the university in question. Upon being asked to come for an interview, I jetted halfway round the world from China, only to find that the people doing the interview had made the mistake of not even checking out my credentials. They had ASSUMED that I possessed the diploma in the first place but had clearly never done their homework.

During the interview, the three members of the interview panel asked me why I had applied for the job even though it appeared that I did not have that "must-have" rag, yet, to me, that was irrelevant; surely, if one is invited to an interview, that must mean that the people are satisfied so that they are sure that one has the pre-requisite quals + exp?

Unfortunately, I sensed that these were people who had been back in England for so long (it looked like 20+ years in their case because they all looked in their fifties!) that they have forgotten what the real world of TEFL is like.

When I finally learned that I did not get the job, I lodged a formal complaint with the university, accusing those three people of gross incompetence; while the university denied accusations of incompetence, I was offered �300 compensation for time and money wasted (not to mention what in English law might be considered as personal injury) and, in the belief that this was as good as it was going to get, I took the money.

I still am in China in the same job as before the interview (which took place in February '09) since I have come to the realisation that, for the moment at least, THIS is the best "front-line" classroom teaching job that I can hold down without a DELTA/Trinity Diploma. After all, I am basically doing the same job that I would have been doing at that university had I been accepted. Why should that university have been insistent on my having that "must-have" rag for doing part-time TESOL work that does not even involve administrative work? I guess that it is simply to make it look like an elitist outfit (which it isn't, considering that it has an older and much more illustrious neighbour in the same city); that is definitely one university to avoid in future!

NilSatis82 · Joined: 03 May 2009 Posts: 110

I agree that they made a mistake, but surely you should take some responsibility too. After all, you applied for a job which required a qualification that you didn't possess. Maybe, before flying halfway round the world, you could have taken the trouble to ask a few more questions as to whether the DELTA/Trinity Diploma really was absolutely necessary.

Schools, colleges, universities etc. are entitled to ask for whatever qualifications they like, it all comes down to supply and demand really. If they think there are enough DELTA/Trinity Diploma holders out there, then why shouldn't they make this a requirement?

Also, if it's 'definitely one university to avoid in the future' then why don't you tell us which one it is?

PattyFlipper · Joined: 14 Nov 2007 Posts: 572