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razorhideki
Joined: 19 Jan 2010 Posts: 78
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Posted: Sun Jan 24, 2010 9:02 pm Post subject: Some Modest Proposals for JET |
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I'd like to hear the opinions of others, esp. current & past JET ALTs, about some ideas I have about changing some things about JET.
1. Scrap the time limit: If a CO is happy with the ALT & vice versa, let him/her stay as long as he/she wants. Time to move from "exchange" to "teaching". To its credit, JET has lengthened the limit from 3 to 5 years.
2. Scrap the age limit: or extend it to 65. There are tons of talented and qualified older Westerners who would be great additions to Japanese schools.
Hell, I'm tempted to recommend a MINIMUM age for being a JET(26?) to help keep out "frat boys".
3. Scrap the degree requirement: that degree in accounting or postmodernist feminist literature doesn't mean jack when you're in a classroom of 20 kogyru and 20 ass-clown boys, along w/a JTE who's a dishrag. Instead, have all JET ALT applicants possess a minimum of a TEFL/CELTA and the key part of the JET interview would consist of a 15 min. demo lesson on a topic unknown to the applicant untill they arrive at the interview. |
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Mr_Monkey
Joined: 11 Mar 2009 Posts: 661 Location: Kyuuuuuushuuuuuuu
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Posted: Sun Jan 24, 2010 9:21 pm Post subject: |
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If the JTE isn't capable of controlling the class, it's highly unlikely that having a CELTA will ensure anything. The CELTA (really, though, for JET a CELTYL is more appropriate, no?) is similar to a driving license - it is an indicator of basic competence.
As for scrapping the degree requirement, I'd be very much against that - a degree is an indication (admittedly inexact) that the holder has mental and social tools that will enable them to learn autonomously (critical when you're working as an English teacher / teaching assistant with only a CELTA). It's also worth pointing out that the purpose of JET is cultural exchange - perhaps a degree in post-feminist literature is more valuable than you think. |
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Glenski

Joined: 15 Jan 2003 Posts: 12844 Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
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Posted: Sun Jan 24, 2010 10:00 pm Post subject: |
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The degree requirement is out of JET's hands. It's a government requirement (Ministry of Justice, immigration department) for work visas.
Besides, what you are saying is that anyone, even a high school graduate or non-graduate, would get enough background and training with a mere CELTA. Sorry. No.
The demo lesson might be nice, but since interviews already take 15 minutes or so, you are asking to double their time. In the bigger cities where tons of applicants are interviewed, that would be unwieldly. In Seattle, I can tell you they were schedules from early morning to later afternoon with several rooms reserved to run interviews simultaneously. |
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fluffyhamster
Joined: 13 Mar 2005 Posts: 3292 Location: UK > China > Japan > UK again
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Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 3:08 am Post subject: |
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The extension of the maximum term from 3 to 5 years would have made sense if a) there were some sort of real (longer-distance) transfer option - as is it, more than 2-3 years visiting more or less the same schools and teachers, or even with the same CO, can get a bit stale (believe me), especially if there are "clear" limits (usually the case) to any willingness to innovate and potentially improve the teaching, ot tackle any problems (but I myself was lucky enough to not have any problems on JET!), or b) they were hiring true (surpemely qualified and experienced) specialists to design and implement groundbreaking changes, which is hardly the average JET or their brief (this is where JET could do with widening the types they hire to include older, more qualified and experienced types...generally though it helps if you are still young enough to play sports with and keep up with the kids generally; I guess 50 would be a reasonable compromize between the current age limit and the suggested 65 [which I myself feel would really a bit too old/"risky"]. As for a minimum age, it can take quite a while and tries to become more eligible for JET and/or get the application in tip-top order, so I'd be surprised if a sizeable minority overall manage to get onto JET much before they're at least a few years out of college).
Qualifications: sure, a vanilla degree doesn't qualify one to do much really, but then, nor does a CELTA (even in addition to a degree). Perhaps what Japan and countries like it need is simply more sympathetically-led classrooms, in which the English presented is descriptively better-informed and thus more lifelike as text at the very least, rather than all the supposedly communicative stuff championed by often steadfastly monolingual native-speaker "helpers". Certainly, JET has always in recruitment materials and processes seemed a bit ambivalent about "just" teaching, and I shudder to think of the disappointments that could in Japan await a communicative firebrand who'd made it through any embarrassing 15-minute demo (assuming of course that the JET interviewers even let alone the Japanese powers that be could decide on what they were actually wanting and definitely looking for). It is basically very hard to please wishy-washy taskmasters (if only they were hard!) with a hundred and one opinions among them on any one matter, but that is what JET ultimately is, to be honest. (Nobody involved, or wanting to be involved, is going to quite come out and say that though, because it is too good a gravy train to miss or even delay. What's important is to look thoughtful, involved and somewhat concerned about this or that, but wihout ever giving too hard and fast an opinion on anything one way or the other, and certainly not to the extent that any hand-wringing results in audible snapping...wait until you're in, and have been left more or less to your own devices, to start implementing anything at all adventurous or status-quo wobbling yet potentially beneficial etc).
Last edited by fluffyhamster on Tue Jan 26, 2010 12:33 am; edited 2 times in total |
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flyer
Joined: 16 May 2003 Posts: 539 Location: Sapporo Japan
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Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 6:06 am Post subject: |
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fluffyhamster wrote: |
Extending the maximum term from 3 to 5 years would make sense if there were some sort of transfer option - as is it,
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it already is 5 years! |
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natsume
Joined: 24 Apr 2006 Posts: 409 Location: Chongqing, China
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Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 7:38 am Post subject: |
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flyer wrote: |
fluffyhamster wrote: |
Extending the maximum term from 3 to 5 years would make sense if there were some sort of transfer option - as is it,
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it already is 5 years! |
And people can, and do, transfer. |
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fat_chris
Joined: 10 Sep 2003 Posts: 3198 Location: Beijing
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Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 11:59 am Post subject: |
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natsume wrote: |
And people can, and do, transfer. |
Natsume,
You rang?
I think JET's fine the way it is. The application process seems to be fair, and the age limit of 40 years old and the five year limit are all appropriate.
As we all know, it's all about ESID. It comes down to the school and the individual JET. If someone comes to the JET Programme willing to try their best and be professional and take an active interest in Japan and the school, and if the school knows how to utilize its ALT and take care of them well, then it's gonna work out all right.
Personal note:
I am a JET ALT with two MA's (one in TESOL) and am in my 30s. Obviously, I am an atypical JET ALT and I signed on with the JET Programme as a way to become more familiar with the Japanese language and culture and the TESOL "landscape" in Japan.
As Natsume has indicated, I am an example of an ALT who has transferred schools (within my prefecture and remaining with the same board of education). To do so, I sent a well-written letter justifying my transfer to my board of education, my kocho sensei at my first school gave my transfer the full seal of approval, and I was on very good terms with the PA and his Japanese boss at kencho.
For the 2010-2011 term I will be heading into my fourth (and perhaps final?) year on JET: two years at my first high school (in the deep Shizuoka inaka with a mere 163 students) and then two years at my current high school (a school that has had SELHi status, located in the suburbs of Hamamatsu). It has been a nice balance.
I think JET's a good Programme. I am one of its supporters.
Regards,
fat_chris
Last edited by fat_chris on Mon Jan 25, 2010 12:03 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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GambateBingBangBOOM
Joined: 04 Nov 2003 Posts: 2021 Location: Japan
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Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 12:00 pm Post subject: Re: Some Modest Proposals for JET |
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razorhideki wrote: |
I'd like to hear the opinions of others, esp. current & past JET ALTs, about some ideas I have about changing some things about JET.
1. Scrap the time limit: If a CO is happy with the ALT & vice versa, let him/her stay as long as he/she wants. Time to move from "exchange" to "teaching". To its credit, JET has lengthened the limit from 3 to 5 years. |
The purpose of the program is PR for the country. They want people to return to their home countries and talk about how great Japan is, in the hopes of building business, or at least improving Japan's international reputation.
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2. Scrap the age limit: or extend it to 65. There are tons of talented and qualified older Westerners who would be great additions to Japanese schools.
Hell, I'm tempted to recommend a MINIMUM age for being a JET(26?) to help keep out "frat boys". |
65 year olds wont be returning to their home country to work for a very long period, so that rules out the PR aspect of the program- the real point of it.
Some contracting organizations do make a deliberate attempt to not get anybody young because of the frat boy (and girl- some COs say that females complain far more than males) thing. Unfortunately, it's more and more common. All that jack-assery is probably at least part of the reason why you can now reapply ten years after having been on the JET program (presumably all the other requirements, like age and not having been in the country for more than two years in the last ten still apply, though).
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3. Scrap the degree requirement: that degree in accounting or postmodernist feminist literature doesn't mean jack when you're in a classroom of 20 kogyru and 20 ass-clown boys, along w/a JTE who's a dishrag. Instead, have all JET ALT applicants possess a minimum of a TEFL/CELTA and the key part of the JET interview would consist of a 15 min. demo lesson on a topic unknown to the applicant untill they arrive at the interview. |
You could say the same thing about k-12 teachers in any of our home countries, too. Except that a degree is proof that you can think and you can work hard enough to get through to graduate. And it's a requirement for a visa. JETS already have a reputation as being the laziest ALTs in Japan (some deservedly, some not so). If you added in 'uneducated' then from your recommendations, you have, "hi, I get paid more than you ALTs because I'm in the JET program and because I'm in the JET program I sit around and post on bigdaikon all day and bitch about having to stay an extra five minutes, oh and I can't believe you guys actually went to university! What was that like? I was thinking of getting a degree, but then I got this job and it pays more than most jobs available for people with a degree, so I'm just gonna stay here until I turn 65 and then retire!... Nope! No training in teaching English for me other than the basics- you need a degree to do that and I don't have one'.
At one time everyone had to be a teacher of some kind to be able to come. They had to scrap it because they couldn't get anywhere near enough people. In fact, some Sister City Programs which have teachers from English speaking countries come over as ALTs have had to scrap the teacher-status requirement because what happens is that people who are teachers go back and talk about what they saw in Japanese classrooms and how they were treated, and nobody wants to do it (especially now that those kinds of programs are paying less than a first year teacher makes in the home countries anyway). And that's when they're just looking for a few people. Try extrapolating that out to thousands... and you begin to see why requiring teacher status isn't feasible. Although if JET keeps shrinking it may become feasible in the future. |
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fluffyhamster
Joined: 13 Mar 2005 Posts: 3292 Location: UK > China > Japan > UK again
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Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 3:29 pm Post subject: |
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Heh, I knew it was already five years, Flyer (I had actually read and understood the OP's post!). Perhaps I'll go back and try to improve the phrasing in my previous post (it sure isn't one of my best!). (Edit: Done!).
As for transfers (Natsume and Fat Chris), sure, you can certainly get the school rotas jiggled a bit reasonably locally, but even then I bet the COs think to themselves at least that it's a lot of hard, not strictly necessary work and more a favour. Anyway, my point was (I think ) that it would probably be quite hard/involved (impossible?) to transfer to a completely different prefecture (which is what I'd do if I were looking for a real change of certainly work-scene), but then, my thinking may have been coloured by having worked at the "zendo" level in Hokkaido, where the patch ('district') I covered was already reasonably large enough that things (e.g. dozens of SHSs) could fortunately be jiggled comparatively easily and informally among the three contracted AETs. More lone AETs in smaller locales doubtless would get more sympathy and joy from more formally requesting relocations for whatever reason (as seems to have been the happy case for Fat Chris! ).
I also feel very fortunate to have been on JET, and think (hope!) I made my mark, but ultimately it is just a nice couple of years for participants at the taxpayer's expense. I would much prefer there to be more genuine opportunities for native or near-native English speakers in not only my home country but Japan also!
GBBB wrote: |
65 year olds wont be returning to their home country to work for a very long period, so that rules out the PR aspect of the program- the real point of it. |
On the other hand, retirees generally have a lot more time (and often money) on their hands to do whatever! |
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natsume
Joined: 24 Apr 2006 Posts: 409 Location: Chongqing, China
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Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 9:25 pm Post subject: |
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fluffyhamster wrote: |
The extension of the maximum term from 3 to 5 years would have made sense if they were hiring true (surpemely qualified and experienced) specialists to design and implement groundbreaking changes |
Hard to tell what you are suggesting here, people with MAs in curriculum design? Education doctorates? And you know as well as most of us here that that is a pipe dream scenario for Japan.
I will (hopefully) be recontracting for a fourth year at the same school. It is a low level technical high school, but my experiences working with the JTEs here has been very good to excellent. I am sure that a huge part of it is perhaps the unusual situation that at least four that I have worked with have MATESOLs, and all of them have been very open and responsive to my own input. (Well, except for the idea of having a full year, at least in a class or two that can handle it, where no (0) Japanese is used in the TT classes.)
Besides that, another thing that keeps me at the school is that I feel fairly integrated into it at this point. I don't feel like a "guest", and I genuinely enjoy the culture and atmosphere of the place. I wouldn't want to give that up by transferring. There is something to be said for having a pleasant working environment, no?
(At the taxpayers expense. )
Anyway, my long term goals don't, or I should say probably only peripherally involve ESL/EFL, so I am not focused on exploring how to make a go of that in Japan. I very well may return to Japan after this, but only at an international school. I am sure I am not making an earth shattering, ground breaking mark on the JET program, but I see value in what I do here, and I see no reason to leave just yet. Hamster, I get your points. I just have to respond when I see generalizations that are far removed from my own experience. |
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Amarok
Joined: 02 Jun 2009 Posts: 47 Location: pineapple under the sea
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Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 12:24 am Post subject: Re: Some Modest Proposals for JET |
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razorhideki wrote: |
2. Scrap the age limit: or extend it to 65. There are tons of talented and qualified older Westerners who would be great additions to Japanese schools.
Hell, I'm tempted to recommend a MINIMUM age for being a JET(26?) to help keep out "frat boys". |
How nice of you. Is the irony seriously lost on you that you would like to see a prejudice against older applicants lifted and the age range extended, but you yourself obviously have your own stereotyped assumptions about anybody YOUNG who happens to apply? A+. |
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fluffyhamster
Joined: 13 Mar 2005 Posts: 3292 Location: UK > China > Japan > UK again
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Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 1:48 am Post subject: |
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Heh, Natsume, yup, those sure are pipedreams I was imagining (and not even for myself!). But I prefer them to the possible nightmare that there really are a few brains locked away and gagged in some MoE backroom whilst the Japanese in the big front room get on with the business of ignoring any and all foreign recommendations in e.g. writing another sub-Dick and Jane textbook!
JTEs with MAs are definitely better than average (the additional studying abroad, which is where they generally go to do these MAs, must help, in addition to the value of the course content itself). I knew a few who had such qualifications in the private highschool that I worked at, but that was such a nasty place that all the teachers there were rather being exploited and wasting their time a bit, unfortunately. And as I mentioned before (here: http://forums.eslcafe.com/job/viewtopic.php?p=811625#811625 ), JTEs at SHS level seem pretty good. It's the JHS ones who can leave a lot to be desired (you can read about some of the real geniuses I've worked with here http://forums.eslcafe.com/job/viewtopic.php?p=354228#354228 and here http://forums.eslcafe.com/teacher/viewtopic.php?t=5455 , the star of the second thread there bore an uncanny resemblance to Terry F***wit (a character in the British adult comic Viz, do a Google Image Search for him!), had execrable English, and was so lazy he couldn't be bothered to even delegate before waddling to every class a few minutes after the bell had sounded. Oh, and he also was the mastermind behind this beauty: http://forums.eslcafe.com/teacher/viewtopic.php?p=26310#26310 ...what a wreck of a teacher. Still, could be what I'll be like if I eventually get into MFLs (Chinese?) in the UK and stay at it a few decades!).
Anyway, hopefully not too many experiences there that are too far removed from yours, Natsume! (I rather suspect that most people's experiences are more similar on the whole than so very different, but who writes about the everyday but enjoyable humdrum stuff, and the real academic insights or triumphs are probably always going to be more down to individual insight than from group effort (unless one is part of a veritable research team!)). Oh, and good luck going the international schools route, by the way! (Better dosh and perks than ELT, eh...but quite as interesting, "free" etc?).
Last edited by fluffyhamster on Wed Jan 27, 2010 8:59 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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razorhideki
Joined: 19 Jan 2010 Posts: 78
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Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 2:42 am Post subject: |
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For the most part, well-thought out, reasonable replies.
A few points: Sure, I realize that the Japanese gov. requires a degree for a legal work visa(working holiday notwithstanding?) but NEED it be? Nothing wrong with majoring in Greek philosophy(unless you count the issue of public subsidization of univ.-but I digress) but I maintain that having a CELTA/TEFL would be a better bet of being a half-decent EFLer...with or without a good JTE co-teacher.
Some missed the point I was trying to make about age. First, I think it's about time the "powers that be" shoved aside the "exchange"/PR bit & started worrying about "teaching". So let good ALTs hang around, do well & forget the 5 yr. limit thing. I don't mean to paint with a wide brush (and I know of 62 yr. olds more immature than some 22 yr. olds) but I think JET would be better served by those who have, well...actually worked for a living. Exceptions? Sure, plenty. But too many JETs, IMHO, have been spoiled brat frat boys/girls who think they are "entitled" to the royal treatment they receive. But hey, that's just me....
And, ye Gods, I wasn't suggesting that someone would enter JET at 20 and stay until 65(not a bad idea, though, if they're good). Rather, what I wrote (see OP) was that if the CO is happy w/the ALT(&vice versa)...then what's the problem? |
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G Cthulhu
Joined: 07 Feb 2003 Posts: 1373 Location: Way, way off course.
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Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 3:24 am Post subject: |
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razorhideki wrote: |
For the most part, well-thought out, reasonable replies.
A few points: Sure, I realize that the Japanese gov. requires a degree for a legal work visa(working holiday notwithstanding?) but NEED it be? Nothing wrong with majoring in Greek philosophy(unless you count the issue of public subsidization of univ.-but I digress) but I maintain that having a CELTA/TEFL would be a better bet of being a half-decent EFLer...with or without a good JTE co-teacher.
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Well, the test there is to look at the people that have the mail order TEFL courses and nothing else and see how they are in the classroom, no? China and Thailand are full of people like that. Having seen a few, my qualified (with a degree & post-grad EFL) opinion is that they're even less effective than the average ALT.
Why?
Precisiely for the reasons others have outlined: they don't even have the basic level of education a degree can afford. Which, when you stop to think how pathetic the average undergrad degree is, is pretty damn sad.
So, sorry, I see no rational reason to *lower* the qualification level even further. Personally, I want o see it raised.
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Some missed the point I was trying to make about age. First, I think it's about time the "powers that be" shoved aside the "exchange"/PR bit & started worrying about "teaching".
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You're about ~5 years behind MEXT. Remember, there are three ministry's involved in JET, plus CLAIR, and they all have different ideas about what JET should be. In the past, MOFA got to determine a lot of what happened because MOFA was the one presenting JET and doing the interviewing. It wasn't until ~8 years ago that MEXT actually got in front of the hiring cycle (they finally figured out that they could force CLAIR to do it) and start moving towards experience and qualifications in teaching.
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So let good ALTs hang around, do well & forget the 5 yr. limit thing. I don't mean to paint with a wide brush (and I know of 62 yr. olds more immature than some 22 yr. olds) but I think JET would be better served by those who have, well...actually worked for a living. Exceptions? Sure, plenty. But too many JETs, IMHO, have been spoiled brat frat boys/girls who think they are "entitled" to the royal treatment they receive. But hey, that's just me....
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I agree. It is just you. I share similar unreasonable and ill-informed biases: I, for example, don't think they should hire any Brits under 30. At all. Why? Because, in my experience of JET, all the Brits under 30 have utter and total wastes of space: straight out punks on a lark. Do I *actually* think my view is accurate? No. But that sure is the way Brits seemed to me. |
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razorhideki
Joined: 19 Jan 2010 Posts: 78
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Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 5:17 am Post subject: |
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Nothing wrong with having a degree on JET. What I'm suggesting is that it's NOT the be all & end all of the whole deal. And no, having a degree in Near Eastern philosophy means jack as being an effective JET ALT. Maybe a CELTA/TEFL would mean more?
I stand firm on the age thing: why not have a 55-yr. old veteran of battle as opposed to a 22-yr. old useless univ. brat? |
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