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hewlett77
Joined: 17 Dec 2009
Posts: 95
Location: all over China
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 Posted: Sat Apr 24, 2010 3:43 pm Post subject: worrying like hell. |
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To cut the story short I'm here in Shenzhen on an L visa and just signed a contract with a recruiter (Little Dragon English) 3 weeks ago. He basically said He can�t help me with getting a Z visa and has not found a school or a lanague school for me to work for. Making things worse I guess I'm lucky the police came to my building to check everyone�s residence permit 2 days ago but luckily I had regrestered with the local Police station and my visa is current which expires in June but they did not ask about my current work situation. I'm not sure what to do, who to turn to as I have spend a lot of money to settle here in Shenzhen and spending a lot of money buying stuff for my apartment. My gf who is very sweet a Chinese teacher said it�s ok to teach on an L visa as she said many people do it. But for me my conscious is saying no. I�m not stupid and I defiantly don�t want to break the law here.
I have future plans to study for my degree through Hong Kong Open University but that is later this year, but that also depends on money.
I�d like any feedback and maybe good if anyone can point me in the right direction. For now I'm not working anywhere as I have put a freeze on dealing with the current recruiter until I can sort out this mess. |
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mat chen
Joined: 01 Nov 2009
Posts: 494
Location: xiangtan hunan
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| Posted: Sat Apr 24, 2010 8:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Maybe EXPO. Something strange is happening in China no one seems to know the rules or procedures. Everyone is telling me different stories and I too have spent a load of money trying to straighten things out. Just try to use good English or you will be accused of being a non native speaker on Dave's. I am joking your English is better than most of the non native speakers I work with here in China |
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cormac
Joined: 04 Nov 2008
Posts: 768
Location: Xi'an (XTU)
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| Posted: Sat Apr 24, 2010 10:02 pm Post subject: |
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hewlett77, out of curiosity, have you checked these threads for info? (The stickies at the top)
http://forums.eslcafe.com/job/viewtopic.php?t=48879
http://forums.eslcafe.com/job/viewtopic.php?t=26047
| mat chen wrote: |
| Maybe EXPO. Something strange is happening in China no one seems to know the rules or procedures. Everyone is telling me different stories and I too have spent a load of money trying to straighten things out. |
I'm confused here. On another thread you're talking about being Blacklisted and having problems with contracts, and now you're saying that nobody knows the rules? This forum is loaded with information about the rules/regulations in China, and the pitfalls that people can fall into.
Do some leg work. Search the forum for information. |
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Laurence
Joined: 26 Apr 2005
Posts: 401
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| Posted: Sun Apr 25, 2010 5:43 am Post subject: |
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In hindsight,
do you think you should have scored a job before 'settling'?
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| I defiantly don�t want to break the law here. |
Compartmentalising things into dichotomies (case in point being 'legal / illegal') is often unrealistic.
In my hometown,
it's legal to shoot a Welshman with a bow and arrow on a Sunday before 12 o'clock on Church Street.
Some people
(especially Japanese people - borne of geographical isolation I guess)
think smoking a joint and jacking up skag must be equally harmful, because both are controlled substances. |
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powerrose
Joined: 14 Apr 2003
Posts: 119
Location: Shenzhen, China
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| Posted: Sun Apr 25, 2010 7:01 am Post subject: |
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| Isn't EF hiring like mad? Also Manhattan Kids Club (which sucks but does sponsor a visa)? What are your qualifications? |
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gene
Joined: 03 Mar 2010
Posts: 187
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| Posted: Sun Apr 25, 2010 7:29 am Post subject: |
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| Compartmentalising things into dichotomies (case in point being 'legal / illegal') is often unrealistic. |
certainly no problem for the police and courts...and verdicts, fines and adjudications are very real.
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| think smoking a joint and jacking up skag must be equally harmful, because both are controlled substances. |
The public's gauge of harmful or not is likely attached to the penalties received for the use and/or possession and likely those who think of the equal harm done are from countries that make little or no differentiation.
| Quote: |
| On another thread you're talking about being Blacklisted and having problems with contracts, and now you're saying that nobody knows the rules? This forum is loaded with information about the rules/regulations in China, and the pitfalls that people can fall into. |
The inability of offices or individuals to answer questions about the rules involved with any given process is a pitfall most of us have come in contact with while serving our masters in the middle kingdom but it has no connection to being black listed or having problems with contracts. Advice given on these boards and others are often the product of rumor mongering & imaginations, or the musings of a drug addled former professional forced into retirement and have little real advice that can be categorized into a useful source of information. The bottom line is everyone will encounter different situations and the ability to deal with those situations will often be a one off solution that will not be useful as a standard operation. Dont take anyone's advice too closely. |
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cormac
Joined: 04 Nov 2008
Posts: 768
Location: Xi'an (XTU)
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| Posted: Sun Apr 25, 2010 9:46 am Post subject: |
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| gene wrote: |
| The inability of offices or individuals to answer questions about the rules involved with any given process is a pitfall most of us have come in contact with while serving our masters in the middle kingdom but it has no connection to being black listed or having problems with contracts. Advice given on these boards and others are often the product of rumor mongering & imaginations, or the musings of a drug addled former professional forced into retirement and have little real advice that can be categorized into a useful source of information. The bottom line is everyone will encounter different situations and the ability to deal with those situations will often be a one off solution that will not be useful as a standard operation. Dont take anyone's advice too closely. |
The two links I posted for the forum stickies have both personal opinions/experiences, and also quoted information from governmental websites. I'm not suggesting accepting everything that people on this forum have to say, but there are a number of rather sane and well informed individuals on these forums that are consistently worth listening to. Just takes some time, and investigation of the various threads to figure that out.
The reason I mentioned Mat Chen's blacklisting was in regards to his reference about nobody knowing the rules. When it comes to Visa's there is rather clear information on this site. His own personal experience with the blacklisting is different to the OPs problem with Visa's and finding work. |
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hewlett77
Joined: 17 Dec 2009
Posts: 95
Location: all over China
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| Posted: Sun Apr 25, 2010 10:10 am Post subject: |
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Well to answer the question of what qualifications I have as follows.
I have a TESOL.
Certificate 1 in Retail studies from Tafe, Western Australia
Transcript of Academic Record (Certificate IV Community Services: Welfare) which I have not complete.
Welfare interventions: Pass
Intro to community services (pass ungraded)
Values and Ethics (pass ungraded)
Foundation Skills for community Services 1 (pass ungraded)
Teacher Training Certificate with EF in Shanghai.
And a couple of references from 2 schools here in China.
Basically my plan is tomorrow I will go to the PSB and take my documents and asked them if at all I'm permitted to work in Shenzhen or not or any other city. I will not discuss with them anything to do with the current contract. But go in as if to find out if I'm legally allowed to work here.
I guess its best from the horse�s mouth, in a polite and friendly manner.
I'll keep you posted on the outcome. Maybe useful for anyone else here in Shenzhen maybe in the same situation as me.
Honestly I don't want to break rules here, just to work with peace of mind and focus on study later in the year. |
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sojourner
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Posts: 738
Location: nice, friendly, easy-going (ALL) Peoples' Republic of China
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| Posted: Sun Apr 25, 2010 11:59 am Post subject: |
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Hewlett,
Most of the people who happen to browse these fora would not have a clue as to what the terms "certificate iv" and "TAFE" mean ! (For the benefit of Canucks/Americans/Brits, TAFE stands for the Technical and Further Education sector, and is Australia's equivalent to the UK Polytechnic college network and Nth America's Community College sectors).
You mention that you obtained a teaching certificate from EF, in Shanghai. I'm curious as to whether you are still in contact with that esteemed organisation - if you are, then they might be able to refer you to some of the EF centres in Guangdong which might be in a position to give you a job due to "some sort of arrangement" with the local bureaucrats re visa requirements
In one of your recent posts you mentioned that you intend to study for a degree through HK's Open University. If you are an Australian, wouldn't it be better for you to take advantage of your country's HECS scheme and to do a distance-education/online degree through an Australian uni that specialises in distance-education, such as UNE ? I can't imagine HK Open Uni's degree programmes being too cheap !
Under current regulations, FTs are meant to already hold a uni degree - but that regulation is not always strictly followed by the powers- that- be. If the Guangdong authorities are adamant that you are not entitled to visa due to your current non-degree status, you might want to consider looking for a job in a neighbouring province, eg Fujian.
Best of luck in whatever you choose to do.
Peter |
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kukiv
Joined: 13 Dec 2009
Posts: 328
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| Posted: Sun Apr 25, 2010 12:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Basically my plan is tomorrow I will go to the PSB and take my documents and asked them if at all I'm permitted to work in Shenzhen or not or any other city |
You got enough money for a ticket home??????? |
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hewlett77
Joined: 17 Dec 2009
Posts: 95
Location: all over China
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| Posted: Mon Apr 26, 2010 6:15 am Post subject: update |
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This morning I walk into the PSB. Ask them about the Z visa situation and they said you need to go down and talk to some at Foreign Affairs. So I pop over to their office which is just further down the road, Louhu, Shenzhen of course. And they basically said for a Foreign Teacher to be qualified to work in Shenzhen all you need is a TESOL, 2 years work experience, and some Teaching training in China such as EF. No degree is required to work for a Kindergarten, Primary school, middle school and some of the Language schools. And that�s what they said this morning. Most recruiters are not permitted to sign a contract with Foreign Teachers on behalf of a school. That�s what they also said this morning.
They were rather informative, but refused to give a first or last name. But then that�s China I guess.
So anyone who would like to do there own investigation on this matter please go check it out for yourself. It would be interesting to see if someone else goes in there and gets the same answer. |
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Teatime of Soul
Joined: 12 Apr 2007
Posts: 905
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| Posted: Mon Apr 26, 2010 4:32 pm Post subject: |
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Why did you enter China on a tourist visa with the intent to work?
Why not just do it legally from the start? |
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askiptochina
Joined: 26 Feb 2010
Posts: 488
Location: Beijing
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| Posted: Tue Apr 27, 2010 4:30 am Post subject: |
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| Teatime of Soul wrote: |
Why did you enter China on a tourist visa with the intent to work?
Why not just do it legally from the start? |
They won't let you enter the country without at least an L-Visa. That is something you have to apply for and it takes 4 days to process.
It's not like Korea or Japan where you can just get off the plane and they give you 90 days. |
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Teatime of Soul
Joined: 12 Apr 2007
Posts: 905
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General Franco
Joined: 29 Dec 2009
Posts: 22
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| Posted: Wed Apr 28, 2010 3:32 am Post subject: |
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This is incorrect. There are numerous routes to legal work. You most certainly do NOT need to enter the country on a Z visa. You can apply for a residence permit/work permit after you arrive on a tourist visa, for example.
It is NOT the Z visa which allows you to work legally - it is the residence/work permit. You may not even need a Z visa at all - I have never had one, and I have a residence/work permit.
It is quite in order to come here first and THEN get a job (and much more sensible imo). |
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