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wayne1523 · Joined: 02 Apr 2010 Posts: 100 Location: Toronto, Canada

May I ask an English teacher, or anybody with knowledge regarding the following questions for some assistance on a few select questions that I am having some difficulty with on my CELTA Pre-Interview Task? I'm trying to get into CELTA school in Toronto. It's kind of urgent because the slot I'm trying to enroll in is starting to get full, so I received a call from one of the administrators to tell me to hurry up if I want to be in class by May 31st or else I'm going to have to wait till July. If this is an inappropriate location to make this post, I'd like to request for the moderator to relocate it to its proper area since I don't have authorized access to the other forums. If anybody can help it would be greatly appreciated and if not, I'll just go with what I think I know which I presume to be, well, sort of incorrect.

How would you explain to a language learner the difference in meaning between the following pairs of
sentences:
a) When he arrived, we had eaten dinner.
b) When he arrived, we ate dinner.
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c) By this time next year, I will have finished college.
d) By this time next year, I will be finishing college.
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e) I've been busy all morning, I've painted the porch.
f) I've been busy all morning, I've been painting the porch.

Justin Trullinger · Posted: Mon May 10, 2010 8:30 am Post subject:

Short answer- I'd refer to the book "How English Works," by Michael Swan and a coauthor who's name I've forgotter, for simple explanation. (I actually rather suspect that these questions came directly from HEW, though it's been a while since I used it, so of course I'm not sure. In any case, it contains the answers you seek.)

The slightly harder but not very hard answer is that you just need to think about the second action a little in each case.

Will it be, or was it, completed or ongoing? Did he arrive home to dinner, or to empty plates, a messy table, and an angry family? (Pictures could do this.)

In all cases the distinction is the state of the second action. Could be drawn, could be timelined...

Best,
Justin

powerrose · Joined: 14 Apr 2003 Posts: 119 Location: Shenzhen, China

CELTA loooooooooooooves timelines. So say you'd use a timeline, refer to Swan, and you are golden.

johnslat · Posted: Mon May 10, 2010 12:55 pm Post subject:

Dear wayne1523,

How would you explain to a language learner the difference in meaning between the following pairs of sentences:

It all has to do with time relationships.

a) When he arrived, we had eaten dinner.
b) When he arrived, we ate dinner.

a) Your dinner was fiished before he arrived.
b) You ate dinner after he arrived.

c) By this time next year, I will have finished college.
d) By this time next year, I will be finishing college.

c) By this time next year, your college studies will be over.
d) By this time next year, you will still be in college, near the end of your studies

e) I've been busy all morning, I've painted the porch.
f) I've been busy all morning, I've been painting the porch.

e) The painting is finished.
f) the painting is still not finished.

Regards,
John

fluffyhamster · Posted: Tue May 11, 2010 10:49 pm Post subject:

Hmm, timelines...anyone fancy diagramming examples like I left university before I'd taken the final exams and She sacked him before he'd had a chance to explain himself - probably not, eh! Twisted Evil

But seriously, although it's worth becoming familiar with the basics of timeline drawing (see 'Suggested reading' below), I'm not sure that timelines are needed for much more than representing perfect aspect (generally describable as "retrospective" relative to whichever general "reference time" (past, present or future)), and assuming that purely verbal explanation of a form's function would fail, there are of course other "diagrammatic" possibilities that do less to "upset" the word order and thus functionality of the original text.

For example:

BrentBlack · Joined: 11 Apr 2010 Posts: 96 Location: Quan 3, Saigon

So I am in the same boat as Wayne. Is it really important that one uses a book and refer to certain authors? I suppose it makes you sound smarter and more interested, but isn't the point to kind of gauge your mastery of the English language, as opposed to you research skills? Either way, I will be getting one of the suggested books, especially since it seems it improves chances of acceptance if you play their game.

Anyhow, this is what I have done so far for the same section:

Task: When I arrived at the station the train left.
Answer: The train left precisely at the moment of arrival.

Task: When I arrived at the station, the train was leaving.
Answer: The train was in the process of leaving at the moment of arrival.

Task: When I arrived at the station the train had left.
Answer: The train was already gone at the moment of arrival.

Now, I have identified the difference in meaning between the sentences, but I have not identified the grammatical structure of left, was leaving, and had left. Does grammatical structure=tense? Thanks. I will be p