Job Discussion Forums

[FredBlork]

Hi,

Search is not working from here (blank screen), so if this is a topic already covered please point me in the right direction.

I'm wondering how other teachers handle the situation in which they find a chinese teacher has told the students something that is wrong. I know "wrong" can be a bit subjective, so maybe I should be specific, and we can find out if the Australians really are that different from everybody else! My students this week have started to refer to members of their family as "families", as in "I went home on the weekend to visit my families". I made sure that they weren't referring to separate sections of their family; no, they definitely meant "relatives".

They told me that one of their other teachers had been the source of this usage, and I told them that it was incorrect. One of the students started to argue. I shot her down pretty bluntly (not a big deal, I hope, I have a pretty casual relationship with my students), and explained the actual usage.

I can't really see myself not correcting mistakes, but does anyone have any ideas about how to handle this? If the students challenge the other teacher, how will the teacher react? Will the chinese just 'save face' by not mentioning it again? In hindsight, I suppose I could have explicitly told them not to go challenging the other teacher with this directly, but I can't think of any other ways.

Cheers.

[The Ever-changing Cleric]

Easiest way out of this is to just remind the students that English is spoken differently in many different places, so what's used here, isn't used there. But that won't always satisfy the really curious students who want a well-thought out answer.

I get questions similar to yours frequently. Correct usage of idioms is one area where Chinese teachers are very weak, and some of the questions I get are related to that topic.

I don't say "the other teacher is wrong" and then tell the students what I think is right. I simply make my case and back it up with some evidence (easy to find via internet or in books). The students can then judge for themselves who's right and who's wrong. Do your homework and the students will usually side with you.

[China.Pete]

"I don't say 'the other teacher is wrong' and then tell the students what I think is right. I simply make my case and back it up with some evidence" -- Cleric

I would definitely bend over backwards to avoid saying another teacher is "wrong," as well, even if I thought they might be. Suggesting that usage may be different in different places could be one way out for you. But putting things so bluntly is kind of unprofessional (how would you feel if the shoe were on the other foot?), Chinese students have a hard time dealing with it, and it could irrevocably harm what might otherwise be a mutually beneficial relationship with a local colleague.

[FredBlork]

Thanks for the responses, guys.

Yeah, I was kind of half way through my explanation of why I thought it was incorrect before I found out the other teacher had told them to use it that way, so I guess I should be aware of that possibility in the future, and temper my responses accordingly.

As far as my being unprofessional, live and learn I guess. I have to admit that having a chinese student telling me how english is meant to be spoken was a bit annoying, so that's probably something I'll have to get over.

Different uses in different parts of the world is a valid point, but I guess I think there has to be some threshold between "yeah, good sentence" and "I think this could be improved". A sentence like "My father and mother are my only families" seems flawed to me, even if you take into account the extended family concept.

In the future maybe I'll just go with "That sounds a bit strange to me, here is what I would say", then explain why and leave it at that. The students can decide for themselves who they want to model their language on.

Cheers.

[The Ever-changing Cleric]

[randyj]

Maybe some of the confusion relates to "family" being a collective noun. The pedant in me would correct a student using the plural form of a verb with a noun like "family", but there are some contexts where it is natural to do so.

One of the problems students in China face with grammar is that their tests often concentrate on only one way as being correct, ignoring any alternatives that native speakers might say is OK.

[Kiels]

I'd also suggest, if possible, talking to the Chinese teacher herself and addressing such misconceptions. Obviously, if she isn't working with you, it might be more difficult but I'm pretty sure, approached the right way and in a constructive, non critical way, this Chinese Teacher would appreciate opportunities to improve her English. Just from my experience of learning a language, I'd rather someone explain this than let me continue using it in similar situations.

Also, I don't know if this is already common in your school, but something proactive would be for you to suggest taking and teaching a class once/ twice a week for the Chinese teachers at your school/uni if this isn't already happening. Other foreign teachers might also help you with this. Common misconceptions you notice such as this could be noted to include in active discussions with the Chinese Teachers. The classes need not be long but in the long run, you're offering your students better learning opportunities because their Chinese Teachers have a better overall understanding of English. Plus at these classes, the opportunity for you to find out the reasons they have learnt this usage could be interesting and I'm fairly sure the Chinese Teachers would be enthusiastic in working with you, coming up with topics or aspects of English they don't understand.

[fluffyhamster]

If your students are old enough you could possibly try accusing them of bigamy whenever they keep going on about having families plural.

Oh but wait, this is China, isn't it, so you can't suggest anything too risqu�!

Perhaps get them thinking instead then about a businessman who talks of his company (his only company) versus a businessman who talks of his companies (so he has quite a portfolio!).

As for teachers who are wrong/not quite informed enough, if push comes to shove, that's their fault not yours, so why tiptoe around too much, and the comment about "how would you feel if the shoe were on the other foot" isn't really relevant seeing as most TEFLers aren't assuming to teach the Chinese language, are they!

[Shan-Shan]

You have a foreign expert's certificate. Now is when the generally utterly useless faux-passport could be flashed (should it come to that): simply tell the students that their usage is incorrect, explain the reason(s) why, and inform them of the correct usage.

I see no reason for pussyfooting around the issue should you be an educated, native speaker. Agonizing over the whether you should first hold a meeting with the Chinese teachers to develop a plan on how to correct their mistakes will do little in improving your students' English.

[johntpartee]

Tell 'em it's wrong. I do it all the time. The other Chinese teachers call my apartment my "department", they call their wives "he", etc....It's urually not a problem, they seem to depreciate it.

[gene]

[xiong20]

hmmmmm..... I wonder if the the Chinese teacher said something that was misunderstood by a student and then quoted incorrectly.We know "you" can be singular or plural and used as the second-person personal pronoun to indicate one person or say many like ... the whole class. ... speaking to the entire class......
"This is a long weekend and you can go home and visit your families."

Possibly could of happened that way... second or third hand information not always accurate.Perhaps it could be narrowed down by gentle probing questions and then correcting the error if there is one but not by contradicting that teacher in front of others. I did that to the lady in charge of the English department(she was wrong) and two months later I was finished at that school.They said "we always change teachers after two semesters" and had requested another teacher from my small language mill.

As far as the student correcting the Chinese teacher.... that's tantamount to suicide....ha,ha.

No problem with the student correcting the foreigner ... happens all the time ... foreigner not feared or has little influence in their eyes.

[fluffyhamster]

[gene]

Many time, the mistake is printed in an approved language learning book used by their Chinese Teacher. Much like all folks, if it is printed they think it has validity. I once ran into a problem with "eye to eye" as it was taught as "eyeball to eyeball" with a young man who was very confused as to his gender expression. I think classroom conflicts of this nature indicate a deeper problem with the individual student who insists that the official text book is absolutely correct because it has been publish by experts....but remember, in China they call FTs experts.