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the peanut gallery
Joined: 26 May 2006 Posts: 264
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Posted: Wed Sep 08, 2010 1:05 pm Post subject: |
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I liked that line as well Guy. And sorry, I misinterpreted your question. |
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juanwilly
Joined: 04 Dec 2009 Posts: 10 Location: Mazatlan
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Posted: Wed Sep 08, 2010 2:18 pm Post subject: |
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TeresaLopez wrote: |
Professor wrote: |
.Look at the language schools that cheat their teachers out of their pay every chance they get. |
OK, which ones would they be? In over 25 years of teaching in Mexico, I have never had this experience anywhere I worked. |
Just two of which I am aware: Escuela Rogers and CETEC, both in Mazatlan. I am certain that there are too many to cite all. |
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Enchilada Potosina

Joined: 03 Aug 2010 Posts: 344 Location: Mexico
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Posted: Wed Sep 08, 2010 5:41 pm Post subject: |
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juanwilly wrote: |
TeresaLopez wrote: |
Professor wrote: |
.Look at the language schools that cheat their teachers out of their pay every chance they get. |
OK, which ones would they be? In over 25 years of teaching in Mexico, I have never had this experience anywhere I worked. |
Just two of which I am aware: Escuela Rogers and CETEC, both in Mazatlan. I am certain that there are too many to cite all. |
There are plenty, you just have to remember that most language schools are not founded on educational principles but on business principles. Making money is number 1 and always will be. Those that can keep the customers/teachers happy stay in business.
I can't understand why teachers expect a decent job with a good salary and benefits in a language school. This doesn't exist. You have to be slightly aggressive in these places, state your terms and conditions and negociate a better deal. This has worked really well for me when I've had to work in these places. |
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Prof.Gringo

Joined: 07 Nov 2006 Posts: 2236 Location: Dang Cong San Viet Nam Quang Vinh Muon Nam!
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Posted: Wed Sep 08, 2010 7:03 pm Post subject: Perspective |
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In many respects, one can see a place from any one of many angles. For example: What NorteAmericanos see as a warm, family based culture in Mexico is in many ways done because of the harsh economic realities.
If pensions and govt. run and/or backed retirement plans are few, then the main retirement plan of the common Mexican must be family.
A family house is often passed down for many generations in Mexico while in the US parents might change houses several times while the kids are growing up.
Also, the American idea of family and the Mexican ones are very different indeed. In the US I see our concept as being much smaller than it is in Mexico. In Latin America, the "extended" family is seen as important as the "nuclear" family is in the US.
I also sense that our discussion goes on in a bit of a vacuum. I mean, any foreigner from a "1st" world country must have a very different POV from those with whom we mingle and live around.
And as a Mexican student of mine once said (she was assigned to the Mex Embassy in DC for almost 2 years): It's much easier for somebody from Mexico to adapt to a 1st world country than it is for somebody like yourself to adapt to a 3rd world country. |
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Professor

Joined: 22 May 2009 Posts: 449 Location: Mexico City
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Posted: Wed Sep 08, 2010 7:55 pm Post subject: Re: Forget Mexico |
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Prof.Gringo wrote: |
Long-term I see little future in being an English teacher in Mexico.
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Long-term you are correct. A lot of my MEXICAN students constantly ask me why I'm still in Mexico teaching? They tell me that I could have a much better retirement in the States than I could EVER have here teaching EFL.
Teaching could be a good thing (short term) for someone fresh out of college wanting to live and experience another culture before going back to the States for grad school, or for an old person living here teaching part time and having a SS check from the States, but for long term....well just remember the 80 year old Prof. Gringo mentioned. Teaching biz classes jst to have money to eat. No retirement, no pension. |
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TeresaLopez

Joined: 18 Apr 2010 Posts: 601 Location: Mexico City
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Posted: Wed Sep 08, 2010 9:11 pm Post subject: |
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Enchilada Potosina wrote: |
I can't understand why teachers expect a decent job with a good salary and benefits in a language school. This doesn't exist. You have to be slightly aggressive in these places, state your terms and conditions and negociate a better deal. This has worked really well for me when I've had to work in these places. |
With all due respect, I disagree with you. Perhaps if you compare what teachers get paid in the US/Canada with what you make here, no. But compared to other professions with similar qualifications and education here is Mexico, it can be quite a good job, yes, with decent benefits, and the possibility of advancement. You can't expect to make US wages, but you also don't pay US prices for most things, with the exception of luxury items and imported items. I live in an area that is considered by most people to be a decent area. No, it's not trendy, but I feel safe, and I know few people who have been effected by crime in the neighborhood. Yet you can rent a nice two bedroom apartment for $3000 - $3500 pesos. My electric bill is $600 pesos every two months. My husband and I spend about $600 pesos a week on groceries, buses cost 3 or 4 pesos, the Metro costs 3 pesos. Why do you need to earn a US salary. We live a quite nice life, eat out once or twice a week, travel 4 or 5 times a year, and have pretty much anything you could want or need. We just ate a huge lunch, which included shrimp soup, rice, chicken in green mole for my husband, a shish-ka-bob for me, beans, tortillas, dessert, and 5 tequillas for 95 pesos. Saying that you don't make a good salary, when comparing it to the US is comparing apples and oranges, or, well papayas and mangos.
That is, if you are a dedicated teacher. I hear from lots of people here that |
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SaratheSlytherin
Joined: 21 Jul 2009 Posts: 137 Location: North Carolina
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Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2010 1:25 am Post subject: |
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Guy Courchesne wrote: |
Quote: |
I'm talking about just blogging about what life is really life down there for an EFL teacher. I want my family to have peace of mind when I'm down there.
Also thanks so much to the teachers who answered my posts and PM me... you are very kind!
Good idea? Bad? Has anyone tried it? |
There are plenty of blogs out there from teachers all over the country. Blogger is an easy way to start.
http://www.blogger.com
Facebook is another good way to stay in touch with folks back home. I've been using that medium more than any other to send home photos and video of my daughter's first year of life for family that can't be in Mexico as often as they would like. |
Thanks Guy! I would like to know if anyone on this site is keeping a blog? |
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SaratheSlytherin
Joined: 21 Jul 2009 Posts: 137 Location: North Carolina
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Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2010 1:30 am Post subject: |
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Professor wrote: |
TeresaLopez wrote: |
here in Mexico, where people actually give a damn about their families and take care of them into old age instead of relagating them to an (often crappy) old folks home, so the need for a large pension isn't as great. |
REALLY?????? ALL Mexicans give a damn about their families?????? I guess that's why I washed, fed, changed the diapers and turned over every two hours every night my mother in law because her MEXICAN sons and daughter REFUSED to do ANYTHING for her.
I'm just saying...not all mexicans care about their families. That mentality shows in the work force as well.Look at the language schools that cheat their teachers out of their pay every chance they get. |
You can't generalize about any country. With all respect it seems like T's post has been misinterpreted. Saying that family values run strong in Mexico (they do) is not saying ALL Mexicans are a certain way. Not all people in the USA are uncaring but sadly there are things here in USA that are very wrong and need to change. |
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SaratheSlytherin
Joined: 21 Jul 2009 Posts: 137 Location: North Carolina
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Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2010 1:39 am Post subject: Re: Perspective |
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And as a Mexican student of mine once said (she was assigned to the Mex Embassy in DC for almost 2 years): It's much easier for somebody from Mexico to adapt to a 1st world country than it is for somebody like yourself to adapt to a 3rd world country.[/quote]
It's all relative. This is the opinion of one person, and it's just as valid as anyone's opinion but she can't speak for everyone from Mexico, nor can she speak for every American who has lived in Mexico.
I lived in Mexico for a year.
The most difficult challenge for me was missing my mom (my parents are divorced so I rarely see my dad) and my pets.
There were things about Mexico that required adjusting to, but I felt accepted there as well as a sense of belonging and adjusting to the culture wasn't difficult for me.
I had an extremely difficult time readjusting to North American culture. I'm not hating on USA, just sharing my experiences. It's been seven years and things just don't feel right. I was happy to see my family and still am but it's obvious at this point that I'm never going to readjust to the culture. People can offer me unsolicited advice but at the end of the day my heart's in Mexico. I've been there and had experiences that you can't easily understand unless you share them. I can see that not all expatriated Americans in Mexico share my feelings. But, this is my opinion, for what it's worth.
What I'm trying to say is that everyone's experiences and feelings are different. |
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SaratheSlytherin
Joined: 21 Jul 2009 Posts: 137 Location: North Carolina
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Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2010 1:49 am Post subject: |
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[quote="the peanut gallery"]Double post, sorry.
"I wish people would realize that NOT all areas of Mexico were alike. I don't have statistics, but my guess is that 99 percent of these murders happen in the border towns."
I do have statistics, at least relating to the drug violence. Of course things are worse in the border states, but this is a national problem. Why cant some people wrap their heads around that very basic point?
With all respect, I hope I'm not the "some people." I understand that things are not perfect elsewhere in Mexico, what I mean to say is that something can be a national problem and be taken out of context.
But, I imagine that there are also people who can't wrap their heads around the idea that in some areas of Mexico, the chances of becoming a victim of violence are extremely remote. Millions of people from the US go to Mexico every year, and the percentage of Americans that die down there is VERY small.
In Ciudad Ju�rez, the northern border city hardest hit by drug violence and where the consulate employee was killed, homicides of Americans rose to 23 in 2009 from two in 2007.
Out of 79 deaths, 23 happened in Juarez.
The annual murder rate for the estimated 500,000 U.S. citizens in Mexico at any one time has risen - but still remains lower than in some U.S. cities: about 15 per 100,000. Baltimore's 2009 homicide rate was 37 per 100,000 residents.
I wish people would wrap their head around this, with all respect.
I'm very, very concerned about the reports of violence I've read.
However, I feel that people need to be informed of ALL the facts. Things get taken out of proportion very easily. |
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SaratheSlytherin
Joined: 21 Jul 2009 Posts: 137 Location: North Carolina
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Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2010 2:06 am Post subject: |
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Quote: |
And if Mexico is so great, as many on here claim, why is it that it's own citizens do anything they can to leave it? |
But like you said, they are only interested in leaving for the money. Ask them where they'd rather be and the answer is 'home', like you'd expect from most people most places.[/quote]
I certainly don't hate the USA but I'm leaving to teach and travel around the world. I studied abroad in Mexico and Spain (it sucks so much that it's difficult for US citizens to get work permits there, but that's another story for another board) and realized that half my heart was in Mexico (three guesses where the other half is).
I have yet to hear of incidents similar to Columbine happening in Mexico. Ditto for students assaulting their teachers or random shootings in malls. In USA, these things aren't even a shock anymore.
The reality is that sadly upward mobility isn't strong in Mexico. It's difficult to escape poverty anywhere in the world, even in USA, but even more so in Mexico. My friends who are teachers in Mexico have told me they want to stay there. People come here to the USA for the money. I've talked to teachers, engineers, businessmen, etc. in Mexico and they all want to stay. I'm an American who wants badly to go there and before you say "how naive, you've never been to Mexico-" I lived there for a year. I only HAD to stay there for a semester but I stayed for a year. I'm not going down there for a vacation but as a serious career teacher.
It saddens me profoundly to hear of violence and poverty in Mexico, just like it saddens me that we have problems here in the USA.
I think that this notion that the USA is a perfect paradise and Mexico is nothing more than a desolate battleground is an extreme distortion. |
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Guy Courchesne

Joined: 10 Mar 2003 Posts: 9650 Location: Mexico City
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Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2010 2:36 am Post subject: |
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SaratheSlytherin wrote: |
Guy Courchesne wrote: |
Quote: |
I'm talking about just blogging about what life is really life down there for an EFL teacher. I want my family to have peace of mind when I'm down there.
Also thanks so much to the teachers who answered my posts and PM me... you are very kind!
Good idea? Bad? Has anyone tried it? |
There are plenty of blogs out there from teachers all over the country. Blogger is an easy way to start.
http://www.blogger.com
Facebook is another good way to stay in touch with folks back home. I've been using that medium more than any other to send home photos and video of my daughter's first year of life for family that can't be in Mexico as often as they would like. |
Thanks Guy! I would like to know if anyone on this site is keeping a blog? |
I had one with LOTS of stuff on it but it was lost...my dog ate it or something.
Started another one only recently but there's not much there yet.
MOD EDIT
and applause to you SaratheSlytherin for some very level-headed and thoughtful posts. |
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the peanut gallery
Joined: 26 May 2006 Posts: 264
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Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2010 6:09 am Post subject: |
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Sara,
My heart also lies in Mexico so I know how you feel about adjusting to life outwith it.
Your original post suggested that the violence is a regional issue (border towns). It is clear for anyone who cares to look that this is incorrect. I posted the stats that confirm this. How is that out of context?
Your OP made no mention of the crime rates of American cities so its a bit out of context to mention them now in relation to Mexican crime. I posted Mexican crime stats. Baltimore has little to do with what is happening in Guerrero and vice versa. To take it a step further and to reiterate a previously made point, the constant comparison of the USA and Mexico is groundless. From a socio-economic stance they have little in common. A more constructive comparison would be Mexico vs countries of similar GDP. To that end, I agree completely with Teresa's post.
Mexico, despite its problems, is wonderful. There is nowhere i'd rather live. Accepting the negatives of life there is compulsory to be happy. Ignoring or sugar coating them is naive. |
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SaratheSlytherin
Joined: 21 Jul 2009 Posts: 137 Location: North Carolina
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Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2010 3:04 pm Post subject: |
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the peanut gallery wrote: |
Sara,
My heart also lies in Mexico so I know how you feel about adjusting to life outwith it.
Your original post suggested that the violence is a regional issue (border towns). It is clear for anyone who cares to look that this is incorrect. I posted the stats that confirm this. How is that out of context?
Your OP made no mention of the crime rates of American cities so its a bit out of context to mention them now in relation to Mexican crime. I posted Mexican crime stats. Baltimore has little to do with what is happening in Guerrero and vice versa. To take it a step further and to reiterate a previously made point, the constant comparison of the USA and Mexico is groundless. From a socio-economic stance they have little in common. A more constructive comparison would be Mexico vs countries of similar GDP. To that end, I agree completely with Teresa's post.
Mexico, despite its problems, is wonderful. There is nowhere i'd rather live. Accepting the negatives of life there is compulsory to be happy. Ignoring or sugar coating them is naive. |
No, no, no.... I didn't say that the stats were out of context! What I mean to say is that a lot of people in the states (no one in particular) don't make any distinction at all between the border and the rest of Mexico.
I'm not comparing Baltimore to Mexico, because the situation is a different one, but the statistics I gave aren't irrelevant. What I mean to say is that in some areas of Mexico your chances of being a victim of violent crime are very similar to your chances of being a victim in a US city.
I'm very concerned about the situation in Mexico. Violence has risen all over the country... I get that. I hope that things change and every day I worry about the situation there. I'm still going to return there in spite of all that but I understand that there are problems there.
I understand what you're saying, that this problem has affected the whole country. It would be very naive to ignore them, but I'm not doing that.
No one is denything that there are problems in Mexico! I'm just saying that some regions are more significantly affected by them. It's a big country and 23 out of 79 incidents happened in the border... that's a high percentage.
I hope that my post clarifies anything else I posted previously... I know I've said this once but just to summarize: Everyone understands that the violence situation has affected the entire country... and it sucks. I"ve seen the statistics and done research of my own... What can I say? It sucks. In spite of all that, whether or not every single region of Mexico is a battleground is another story. Is it?
So... moving on I guess... are you still in Mexico now? Do you feel safe there? May I ask what part of Mexico? I'm curious. |
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SaratheSlytherin
Joined: 21 Jul 2009 Posts: 137 Location: North Carolina
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Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2010 3:15 pm Post subject: |
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Guy Courchesne wrote: |
SaratheSlytherin wrote: |
Guy Courchesne wrote: |
Quote: |
I'm talking about just blogging about what life is really life down there for an EFL teacher. I want my family to have peace of mind when I'm down there.
Also thanks so much to the teachers who answered my posts and PM me... you are very kind!
Good idea? Bad? Has anyone tried it? |
There are plenty of blogs out there from teachers all over the country. Blogger is an easy way to start.
http://www.blogger.com
Facebook is another good way to stay in touch with folks back home. I've been using that medium more than any other to send home photos and video of my daughter's first year of life for family that can't be in Mexico as often as they would like. |
Thanks Guy! I would like to know if anyone on this site is keeping a blog? |
I had one with LOTS of stuff on it but it was lost...my dog ate it or something.
Started another one only recently but there's not much there yet.
MOD EDIT
and applause to you SaratheSlytherin for some very level-headed and thoughtful posts. |
Thanks, I can't wait to look at that blog! Shame about your dog It must have been amazing.
I don't have any choice but to put thought and research into this... I feel that people who come to these boards need to be informed about the truth about Mexico.
That's why I want to start a blog when I go there! I'm cautious about what I write because I am concerned that what I say might be misunderstood or misinterpreted. I often get misunderstood. I don't want to be accused of doing anything political or subversive (we had to learn the constitution when I was in college there and Amendment 33... I'll be happy to explain it to anyone who has questions).
I want people to know what the situation really is so that they can make informed decisions about their own safety. Also, I want my family to know that I'm safe and have my eyes open. |
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