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igorG
Joined: 10 Aug 2010
Posts: 1473
Location: asia
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 Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2011 5:01 am Post subject: |
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Oh, please! Reading some of posts of the last poster, with all due respect, suggests little knolwedge about the local employers, contracts and/or the country. Schools in this country treat foreign teachers like children because they treat their own the same way. Little independance is allowed and plenty of obedience and a uniformity in sense of what little people do is required. Many employment agreements and local employers' attitudes towards FTs are almost uniformed around the country. It's not about if you sign the contract or not but about if you are willing to work in the country or not.
http://forums.eslcafe.com/job/viewtopic.php?t=91764&start=15 |
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urbanversion
Joined: 27 Jan 2011
Posts: 426
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| Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2011 11:03 am Post subject: re: dean dude |
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| It's no wonder why some schools treat FTs like children and think we are unreliable and untrustworthy... |
I never said I was unreliable or untrustworthy.
I just don't like having my personal freedoms denied, or being lectured to by some young FAO, full of bluster, who doesn't know s**t from shoe-shiner.
Show me where, in law, those "clauses" have any basis. You can't because they do not. So every FT has the right to refuse them, or force them out of the contract. If the school in question refuses to back down, be polite, but just stay out late or bring girls back anyway. At worst case you just move on to greener pastures. No point being a grovelling weasel, no way...
Cheers and beers on,
UBV |
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jayjjasper
Joined: 27 Aug 2011
Posts: 344
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| Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2011 12:51 pm Post subject: |
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| I just don't like having my personal freedoms denied, |
urbanversion, Not sure getting some comes under the freedom act...emancipation of fornication .. hey I am all for it but seems to me your stretching. if your gonna break the rules ... just say so.... but when you agree to having the restriction in place then it seems kind of juvenile to claim denial. That said, I wouldn't hesitate to break a rule but take into account that your work has to be top notch to survive the infractions. (urbanversion, is that like the urban version of the world as urbanverson sees it. )
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| Show me where, in law, those "clauses" have any basis |
When you sign a contract you obligate yourself to abide by the parameters of that instrument. As for the basis, check under contract law and the accepting of conditions upon signature.
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| No point being a grovelling weasel, no way... |
Some might say a groveling weasel was the kind of person to accept the obligations of a contract and secure that obligation with a signature, then make some lame excuse as to why they will not honor said obligation instead of owning up to the fact that they signed it without ever intending to abide by such regulations stipulated. Few have respect for a whiner but for a rule breaker and rebel, there is plenty of room in the rebellion hall of fame.
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| I never said I was unreliable or untrustworthy. |
While I am sure you don't consider that you may be laboring under a conditional trust, one that is based on whether you feel like living up to obligations that you have agree to, but many would consider that UNTRUSTWORTHY. Now consider the fact that we live in the land where "all warfare is based on deception", if you consider teaching ESL to be a waring of words and FTs to be Foreigners in the trenches then maybe you can sell deceit as a weapon. Otherwise, just own up to the fact that after you signed the contract, cause you really really wanted to work here, you realized the implications of the rules and decided to 86 them. No one but a few stick in the mud Davesters would ever fault you as we all have all been on that lonely 3 inch mattress looking for love in all the "wong" places. |
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Lobster
Joined: 20 Jun 2006
Posts: 2040
Location: Somewhere under the Sea
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| Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2011 1:09 pm Post subject: |
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The problem here is confusion about what is law and what is a school regulation. The law probably doesn't state that it's illegal to consume alcohol in the teachers' office. But perhaps your contract states that teachers aren't allowed to drink on school premises. So, because it's not against the law, would you feel justified in drinking in your office?
Here's the scoop. When you live on campus, you are expected to abide by the school's regulations. They may feel that you are expected to provide a role model for students, and that doesn't include bringing home stray girls from the bar. If you want the perk of free, on-campus accommodations, you agree to abide by the school's regulations, whether they are written into law or not. It's not a matter of being a 'grovelling weasel', it's a matter of being a responsible individual. Follow the rules, get your own place or take your romance to a hotel.
RED |
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jayjjasper
Joined: 27 Aug 2011
Posts: 344
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| Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2011 1:15 pm Post subject: |
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So, because it's not against the law, would you feel justified in drinking in your office?
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Only from a flask, as a paper bag is so obvious.
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| They may feel that you are expected to provide a role model for students, and that doesn't include bringing home stray girls from the bar. |
Unless they were students at the institution, then you may be doing the administration a favor. In that case they would be listed as stray students and would have no consequence from the conditions of your contract. |
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kev7161
Joined: 06 Feb 2004
Posts: 5880
Location: Suzhou, China
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| Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2011 1:36 pm Post subject: |
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| No point being a grovelling weasel, no way... |
Buddy, you are at the WRONG message forum!
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choudoufu
Joined: 25 May 2010
Posts: 3325
Location: Mao-berry, PRC
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| Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2011 1:40 pm Post subject: |
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what other items in the contract are not required by law?
round trip airfare?
specific paydays?
accomodations?
paid utilities?
paid vacations?
so......if da man decides there's no basis in law, then what? |
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dean_a_jones
Joined: 03 Jul 2009
Posts: 1151
Location: Wuhan, China
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| Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2011 1:42 pm Post subject: |
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| igorG wrote: |
| It's not about if you sign the contract or not but about if you are willing to work in the country or not. |
Spoken with your usual insight and clarity. |
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urbanversion
Joined: 27 Jan 2011
Posts: 426
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| Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2011 5:20 pm Post subject: re: interesting points from everyone |
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I don't mean to take anything away from this discussion, I am enjoying it immensely. Everyone is chipping in perfectly valid opinions, and I have food for thought.
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| it's a matter of being a responsible individual. Follow the rules, get your own place or take your romance to a hotel. |
The problem is I feel I became a responsible individual when I got kicked out of home at 18 and learned to fend for myself in the big, bad world. Following rules that are dictated to me just because I am a single foreign guy with a bit of yellow fever and a thirst for a beer, well, I can't tolerate that. And I don't see I should pay for a hotel either...dead money, and we need to save. If they are prepared to pay for and furnish an apartment off campus, then fine. However money is king, and they are not. So live with our, perceived by them, laowai fun loving habits they must.
What if I had a chinese/western wife with me...what then...would they refuse me the job? Because it's not a good example to the students? |
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7969
Joined: 26 Mar 2003
Posts: 5782
Location: Coastal Guangdong
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| Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2011 7:37 pm Post subject: |
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| well, have a few more beers and u should be ok dude. |
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Opiate
Joined: 10 Aug 2011
Posts: 630
Location: Qingdao
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| Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2011 10:12 pm Post subject: Re: re: interesting points from everyone |
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| urbanversion wrote: |
I don't mean to take anything away from this discussion, I am enjoying it immensely. Everyone is chipping in perfectly valid opinions, and I have food for thought.
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| it's a matter of being a responsible individual. Follow the rules, get your own place or take your romance to a hotel. |
The problem is I feel I became a responsible individual when I got kicked out of home at 18 and learned to fend for myself in the big, bad world. Following rules that are dictated to me just because I am a single foreign guy with a bit of yellow fever and a thirst for a beer, well, I can't tolerate that. And I don't see I should pay for a hotel either...dead money, and we need to save. If they are prepared to pay for and furnish an apartment off campus, then fine. However money is king, and they are not. So live with our, perceived by them, laowai fun loving habits they must.
What if I had a chinese/western wife with me...what then...would they refuse me the job? Because it's not a good example to the students? |
Uh..if you had a wife with you the school still would not want you to take girlfriends to your on campus housing 
The point I believe he was making about being responsible is that you agreed to these terms. Now you should be responsible and abide by them OR discuss your issues with your manager and modify your contract. Why did you agree to things if you knew you would/could not live up to your end of the agreement?
Many 'laowai with fun loving habits' are likely the reason some schools have rules like this btw. |
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urbanversion
Joined: 27 Jan 2011
Posts: 426
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| Posted: Fri Sep 23, 2011 8:54 am Post subject: re:this is what i mean... |
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| Many 'laowai with fun loving habits' are likely the reason some schools have rules like this btw. |
There is nothing wrong with drinking. Chinese do it, and perhaps to even more excess than 'laowai'.
Nor is there anything wrong with Chinese girls coming over.
Any FAO who tries to restrict a single male FT from having fun, is just acting on fear of the other. |
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Opiate
Joined: 10 Aug 2011
Posts: 630
Location: Qingdao
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| Posted: Fri Sep 23, 2011 6:00 pm Post subject: Re: re:this is what i mean... |
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| urbanversion wrote: |
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| Many 'laowai with fun loving habits' are likely the reason some schools have rules like this btw. |
There is nothing wrong with drinking. Chinese do it, and perhaps to even more excess than 'laowai'.
Nor is there anything wrong with Chinese girls coming over.
Any FAO who tries to restrict a single male FT from having fun, is just acting on fear of the other. |
No, you aren't getting it. When a local gets shit faced drunk and acts the fool it's not a big deal. When a foreigner does it, it is a whole 'nother ball of wax. Not once did anyone say you could not have fun. However, you agreed to finish your fun by 11 at night. Nobody forced you to do this. You agreed to it. Complaining about it now makes no sense.
Your contract does not say you can't drink outside of class on your own time. You say how you have been a responsible adult since you left home yet now in essence you want to live at home with daddy and still bring chicks home to bang. Don't be so foolish. Your choices are simple and always were. Sign the contract and agree to have certain aspects of your personal life being monitored and/or restricted or find off campus housing and do as you damn well please. Now you are trying to have it both ways. You want the convenience of on campus housing with the freedom of off campus housing. You can't always have both.
I want to agree with you, I sincerely do, but you are making it very hard. In fact, once you signed that contract, you made it impossible for me to agree with you. Man up. Do what you agreed to do or find another school with different expectations.
...and no, they do not have these rules just so foreigners can't tag locals. You just can't tag them WHERE YOU WORK.
Your truly,
-Somebody who does not live on campus |
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urbanversion
Joined: 27 Jan 2011
Posts: 426
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| Posted: Fri Sep 23, 2011 7:32 pm Post subject: re: not in china |
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| Nobody forced you to do this. You agreed to it. Complaining about it now makes no sense. |
Dear Sir,
Complaining about nothing as I am not even in the PRC.
Defending policies like this...never.
Regards
UBV |
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jayjjasper
Joined: 27 Aug 2011
Posts: 344
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| Posted: Fri Sep 23, 2011 9:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Complaining about nothing as I am not even in the PRC. |
An example of talking though ones hat. |
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