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thepeel
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
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 Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2007 10:38 pm Post subject: |
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| So, just to be clear, what are "Canadian values"? |
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Adventurer
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2007 2:25 am Post subject: |
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| BJWD wrote: |
| So, just to be clear, what are "Canadian values"? |
This thread isn't about Canada or Canadian values. People associate with Canadians a sense of taking care of one another i.e. universal health care, promoting peace keeping similar to what the Norwegians and Swedes do, a focus on education as Canada has a highly educated populace, and generally I would say Canada is a tolerant, relatively secular society where people respect their differences more or less with definite exceptions... I didn't bring up the term Canadian values. Every country has a different feel to it.
Anyway, I would like to go back to the thread. This is very serious. There is a clash between the Executive and Legislative branches and both conservatives and liberals are in arms over this. |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2007 9:02 am Post subject: |
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First, I agree with Kuros that the American-Canadian comparison does not work. And not only with respect to scandals. But with respect to pretty much any other issue out there.
Canada is small; America is the hegemon.
| Adventurer wrote: |
| People associate with Canadians a sense of taking care of one another i.e. universal health care, promoting peace keeping similar to what the Norwegians and Swedes do, a focus on education as Canada has a highly educated populace, and generally I would say Canada is a tolerant, relatively secular society where people respect their differences more or less with definite exceptions... |
You left out "nationalism" and "smug moral superiority" -- especially vis-a-vis America.
And I think your "people-associate-with-Canadians" speech (where did you get this? an international poll? who are these "people?" and how do you know what they think about Canada?) does little more than repeat what Canadians associate with Canadians. Based on the Canadians I met in South Korea and on this board, you also left out "confrontationally antiEstablishmentarianist" and "heavy marijuana usage" as well.
Canada is a small country -- thirty million population, insignificant political economy, and Canadian foreign policy, on its own, touches hardly anyone, anywhere. A few major cities; and many others simply live in the woods. For these reasons, people assume Canada is harmless, as far as world affairs goes, and this generates goodwill abroad. |
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Pligganease
Joined: 14 Sep 2004
Location: The deep south...
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| Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2007 9:23 am Post subject: |
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| Gopher wrote: |
| Canada is a small country -- thirty million population, insignificant political economy, and Canadian foreign policy, on its own, touches hardly anyone, anywhere. A few major cities; and many others simply live in the woods. For these reasons, people assume Canada is harmless, as far as world affairs goes, and this generates goodwill abroad. |
I disagree. i think that the "goodwill" comes from a general apathy toward Canada. Most people outside of Canada rarely think about our neighbors to the north. To hate or love a country or it's people, that country or it's people must evoke some sort of emotion in others. It isn't that people respect or love Canada, it's that those people don't have any emotion with regard to it.
It would be like going to another country ans saying, "I'm from Canada." The other person might say, "Cool. It's a nice place." It isn't that they genuinely love or like Canada, it's just that they hadn't really thought about Canada before and they don't really have an opinion about it. |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2007 12:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Pligganease wrote: |
| I disagree. i think that the "goodwill" comes from a general apathy toward Canada. |
Agree. I used "goodwill" for lack of a better term to describe "lack of hostility." |
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NAVFC
Joined: 10 May 2006
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| Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2007 1:42 pm Post subject: Re: what do the yanks on dave's think about this DOJ scandal |
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| BJWD wrote: |
| freethought wrote: |
If my prime minister and his party and staff were embroiled in a scandal and then refused to allow a proper investigation of it, I'm not sure what would happen in Canada, but the outrage, I think, would be FAR more than what I've been seeing in the American media.
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No, it wouldn't. People in the opposition would be outraged, and those in the governing party would protect the tribe.
More specifically, if it was a conservative government, the Toronto Star, G&M and the legions of their minions would all scream about how this is just like BUSH till they were blue in the face. If it were the Liberanos, the National Post and Fraser Institute would protest, and the rest would scream until they are blue in the face about BUSH, and whatever he did that day.
The problems in the Federal Liberal party were known within the party for a long, long time. Everybody had their hand in that one. Nobody cared, as long as all the platitudes that pass for the Liberal ideas were still being accepted as "Canadian values", like we see in adventurer. Nobody in the liberal party cared one little bit. What they did care about was getting Martin's pic taken in front of a Canadian flag 100 times a day. They only started caring when Canadians started caring, and all the precious jobs fleecing the beaten and dumbed down Canadian people were at risk.
Average Canadians, however, find it quite typical of their 'government'. Nobody believes in the government to be anything but self-serving. But at the same time, they are unable to relax their grip on the tit of entitlements the government gives them. It is a perfect road to apathetic stability. |
Oh p[lease. you can try to tie the firingws to investigations if you want but that is dumb. You could use that explanation in almost any situation, as they are US ATTORNEYS. they specifically deal with the government, so at any point in time, the # of US attorneys invovled in explnations that deal with the government is oretty high. Im not a idiot, you a conspriacy nutjob. |
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Adventurer
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2007 7:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Gopher wrote: |
First, I agree with Kuros that the American-Canadian comparison does not work. And not only with respect to scandals. But with respect to pretty much any other issue out there.
Canada is small; America is the hegemon.
| Adventurer wrote: |
| People associate with Canadians a sense of taking care of one another i.e. universal health care, promoting peace keeping similar to what the Norwegians and Swedes do, a focus on education as Canada has a highly educated populace, and generally I would say Canada is a tolerant, relatively secular society where people respect their differences more or less with definite exceptions... |
You left out "nationalism" and "smug moral superiority" -- especially vis-a-vis America.
[That does exist, and it also exists in the U.S. vis-a-vis the whole world. I am sure you'ved lived in the U.S. and heard people say "We have the best country in the world", and "We are the most democratic country".
That is a form of nationalism is it not. Foreigners don't agree with it, but they hear it all the time. Don't forget "Love it or leave it".
And I think your "people-associate-with-Canadians" speech (where did you get this? an international poll? who are these "people?" and how do you know what they think about Canada?) does little more than repeat what Canadians associate with Canadians. Based on the Canadians I met in South Korea and on this board, you also left out "confrontationally antiEstablishmentarianist" and "heavy marijuana usage" as well.
[What I posted I took from my experience, coming from Canadian history with the various political carties, what policies have been implement, and also what the government projects. I don't think most Canadians are anti-establishment. I disagree with that. Unless you mean they are not generally so religious.
Canada is a small country -- thirty million population, insignificant political economy, and Canadian foreign policy, on its own, touches hardly anyone, anywhere. A few major cities; and many others simply live in the woods. For these reasons, people assume Canada is harmless, as far as world affairs goes, and this generates goodwill abroad. |
[I disagree with that. Norway helped start Oslo, and it is a small country.
Canada does have a lot of influence. Israel has a population of 6 million and a similar economy than Canada's. So I don't agree you can simply look at population and make such a sweeping statement. Anyway, again, this thread isn't about Canada as compared to the U.S. A certain poster brought that up. I don't want to stay off topic. Bush shouldn't get off the hook. |
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Adventurer
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2007 7:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Pligganease wrote: |
| Gopher wrote: |
| Canada is a small country -- thirty million population, insignificant political economy, and Canadian foreign policy, on its own, touches hardly anyone, anywhere. A few major cities; and many others simply live in the woods. For these reasons, people assume Canada is harmless, as far as world affairs goes, and this generates goodwill abroad. |
I disagree. i think that the "goodwill" comes from a general apathy toward Canada. Most people outside of Canada rarely think about our neighbors to the north. To hate or love a country or it's people, that country or it's people must evoke some sort of emotion in others. It isn't that people respect or love Canada, it's that those people don't have any emotion with regard to it.
It would be like going to another country ans saying, "I'm from Canada." The other person might say, "Cool. It's a nice place." It isn't that they genuinely love or like Canada, it's just that they hadn't really thought about Canada before and they don't really have an opinion about it. |
Canada is a country larger than the United States. You mean it has a small population as compared to the United States and half the population of England. Israel has a population of six million and is not viewed as insignificant. Korea has a population of 50 million i.e. 1/6th the size of the U.S., and the U.S. Government for some reason wants a free trade agreement with an insignificant country. This seems like some kind of bitter American nationalism to slam Canada. This topic isn't about American or Canadian nationalism.
Furthermore, every country is significant in my book. Also, so many Americans don't really think any country outside the U.S. significant. You do recall that people from England and the U.S. did the worst among a bunch of Western countries when it comes to knowledge regarding other countries so saying Americans don't really think about Canada doesn't mean anything considering many don't think about other countries much at all and some don't even know certain states on the map. You know this to be true. I don't think it is the peoples' fault. The media could help contribute to their knowledge, but they think it costs money, and they don't care about the people. I do think the media was probably better in the 1970s and 1980s before they closed their foreign bureaus. You do knwo those bureaus are gone. It would affect peoples' knowledge of other places. Anyway, French people are aware of people of Belgium.
Belgium is much smaller than France with a much smaller population.
Should that be a reason to be ignorant of Belgium? |
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