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nautilus
Joined: 26 Nov 2005
Location: Je jump, Tu jump, oui jump!
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 Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 3:11 am Post subject: |
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| Bibbitybop wrote: |
Nautilus, are you employed through your school or a higher office of education? |
GEPIK.
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| If I remember Nautilus' first posting correctly, there is no rule about beards and nothing in the contract about it. It's like the boss saying "I want you to wear only red shirts because Korean's like red. Reds go together." It's his bosses preference, nothing more. |
What the other teachers explained to me afterwards was that a mother had complained about it and 1 or 2 kids had been "scared" by it. Apparently the clampdown was due to there being parents day (which was 2 days later).
If they'd made a polite request I would have had no problem with it.
Not sure what to do now...If it got nasty they might dredge up stuff from months ago. |
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JeJuJitsu
Joined: 11 Sep 2005
Location: McDonald's
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| Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 4:06 am Post subject: |
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| nautilus wrote: |
If they'd made a polite request I would have had no problem with it.
Not sure what to do now...If it got nasty they might dredge up stuff from months ago. |
Get "You catch more flies with honey than vinegar" translated into Korean and hand to your boss(es). |
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butlerian
Joined: 04 Sep 2006
Location: Korea
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| Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 4:21 am Post subject: |
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| nautilus wrote: |
| Bibbitybop wrote: |
Nautilus, are you employed through your school or a higher office of education? |
GEPIK.
| Quote: |
| If I remember Nautilus' first posting correctly, there is no rule about beards and nothing in the contract about it. It's like the boss saying "I want you to wear only red shirts because Korean's like red. Reds go together." It's his bosses preference, nothing more. |
What the other teachers explained to me afterwards was that a mother had complained about it and 1 or 2 kids had been "scared" by it. Apparently the clampdown was due to there being parents day (which was 2 days later). Sometimes it takes a stronger man to accept that there are some things are better left as they are, and some things that are worth fighting for. A beard? I don't think so.
If they'd made a polite request I would have had no problem with it.
Not sure what to do now...If it got nasty they might dredge up stuff from months ago. |
Look around you: no beards. It's convention here, at least in schools. A little bit of conformism isn't asking too much. I'd understand if you had the beard before you got the job, and your photo displayed as much. But, this appears not to be the case. By all means, there's nothing wrong with stubble - I frequently go to school one week in arrears. Not only are you disrespecting the Korean hierarchical system but you're also not in harmony with your surroundings.
I'm all for standing up for yourself when you're in the right, but in this case you have to accept that Korea is not the same as your homeland. Sometimes it takes a stronger man to accept the situation and realise that there are more important things that need fighting. A beard? I don't think so. At least, not yet. |
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laogaiguk
Joined: 06 Dec 2005
Location: somewhere in Korea
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| Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 5:25 am Post subject: |
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| butlerian wrote: |
| nautilus wrote: |
| Bibbitybop wrote: |
Nautilus, are you employed through your school or a higher office of education? |
GEPIK.
| Quote: |
| If I remember Nautilus' first posting correctly, there is no rule about beards and nothing in the contract about it. It's like the boss saying "I want you to wear only red shirts because Korean's like red. Reds go together." It's his bosses preference, nothing more. |
What the other teachers explained to me afterwards was that a mother had complained about it and 1 or 2 kids had been "scared" by it. Apparently the clampdown was due to there being parents day (which was 2 days later). Sometimes it takes a stronger man to accept that there are some things are better left as they are, and some things that are worth fighting for. A beard? I don't think so.
If they'd made a polite request I would have had no problem with it.
Not sure what to do now...If it got nasty they might dredge up stuff from months ago. |
Look around you: no beards. It's convention here, at least in schools. A little bit of conformism isn't asking too much. I'd understand if you had the beard before you got the job, and your photo displayed as much. But, this appears not to be the case. By all means, there's nothing wrong with stubble - I frequently go to school one week in arrears. Not only are you disrespecting the Korean hierarchical system but you're also not in harmony with your surroundings.
I'm all for standing up for yourself when you're in the right, but in this case you have to accept that Korea is not the same as your homeland. Sometimes it takes a stronger man to accept the situation and realise that there are more important things that need fighting. A beard? I don't think so. At least, not yet. |
It's also common to wear pink and grope other men in a friendly way. While I think there is nothing wrong with this, I am not really into it. It's also common not to wear seatbelts in the back. Sorry, but this post deserves all the replies I am sure it will get. |
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Bibbitybop
Joined: 22 Feb 2006
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 5:38 am Post subject: |
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I assure you GEPIK has many other native teachers with beards and I'm willing to bet there's no rule against it.
Don't conform. Your school officials obviously know there's nothing dangerous about a beard as you had one for so long. Kids were scared? Teach them about war and disease and give them something legitimate to be scared of.
When all else fails, hold up your contract and say "I didn't agree." |
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Gord
Joined: 25 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 10:01 am Post subject: |
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| ttompatz wrote: |
| (2)In the case of the proviso of paragraph (1), the approval of the Minister of Labor shall be obtained regarding the causes attributable to a worker. |
That means that they would have to agree with the reason as to why a person was fired and not deserving of a notice period.
You're not telling me anything new here. Back when I worked in Korean Immigration, I had to occasionally explain to many a Whitie McWhite that they could in-fact be (or more accurately, had just been) fired without notice or severence for bringing the boom hammer down on themselves when they has mistakenly thought they were sporting the immunity stick.
| Bibbitybop wrote: |
| If I remember Nautilus' first posting correctly, there is no rule about beards and nothing in the contract about it. It's like the boss saying "I want you to wear only red shirts because Korean's like red. Reds go together." It's his bosses preference, nothing more. |
When I did some temp work at a high school for kids destined for university, it was made exceptionally clear to me that I was to dress the role of a gifted educator and be clean shaven as that was policy of the district. Though that was most likely that this policy was brought to my attention because I had been requested I go there immediately and had just finished a "meet the Canadian!" at a young grade-school class and was dressed in as much prop clothing as I could (hockey jersey, hiking shoes, etc.).
While it's possible that the "no beard" thing was done a whim, it was my understanding when I was there that it pretty much was standard across the board. Which is unfortunate, as I look great in a prom dress. |
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Travelous Maximus
Joined: 15 Jan 2007
Location: Nueva Anglia
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| Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 12:06 pm Post subject: |
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| T-bag him. |
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bosintang
Joined: 01 Dec 2003
Location: In the pot with the rest of the mutts
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| Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 3:57 pm Post subject: |
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| You made a decision Nautilus, I say go with it. I highly doubt they'll fire you. It will be worth too much trouble on their part -- if it was hagwon, maybe, but definitely not a public school -- and in the end you'll have come out on the higher ground. |
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Alyallen
Joined: 29 Mar 2004
Location: The 4th Greatest Place on Earth = Jeonju!!!
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| Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 7:09 pm Post subject: |
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| hubba bubba wrote: |
| Alyallen wrote: |
1. I have a question. All those pictures of the Korean guys on the money have beards. Did they really have beards back then or is it artistic license?
2. I've seen Koreans with full on beards but usually they are older guys who live the more traditional Korean lifestyle (I think!) judging by the clothes they wear... |
1. I don't know to tell you the truth.
2. Really? Not calling you a liar, but I can't think of any.
I'm actually pretty interested now. I mean, of course Korean men grow some facial hair, but I thought that generally it doesn't come in very think, which is why Korean men usually shave. I'll have to ask my buddy. This will be good for a laugh. Wow, you mean you CAN grow facial hair???
Funny the ideas we pick up sometimes, huh? |
Like I said, I have only seen a few. I live near the traditional village in my city, so I see guys wearing the "everyday" hanbok sporting beards. Actually, there was a guy at the Jeonju marathon who had a full beard. I REALLY doubt he was a gangster.
I came across these photos. They were taken at the end of WWII in Korea. There are old men with beards. I guess this proves that the pictures of those dudes on the money COULD be factual...beards and all. Anyway, the pictures are quite large, so I decided to post only one here....
From http://flickr.com/photos/dok1/tags/korea/
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riley
Joined: 08 Feb 2003
Location: where creditors can find me
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| Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 7:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Have to agree with Alyallen here on beards. I've seen some truly phenomanol (sic) beards on some men here. They've put to rest the myth about Asians not being able to grow beards. I've actually been jealous. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 7:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Gord wrote: |
| nautilus wrote: |
| ...or where a worker has caused considerable difficulties to a business, |
Flagrant violation of an established dress code would qualify under the above condition. |
Not that I am disputing you, but I fail to see how this applies. This is a public school and not a hakwon. In other words the students have to go there, they don't have a choice (unlike a hakwon).
So how does sporting a beard cause CONSIDERABLE difficulties to a public school...which is not a business? |
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babtangee
Joined: 18 Dec 2004
Location: OMG! Charlie has me surrounded!
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| Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 7:44 pm Post subject: |
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Don't oppress the beard! If I could grow a manly one, I would. 
I support you, OP. It's refreshing to hear about a man who refuses to relinquish his dignity for the sake of his superior's inflated ego. Of course such a man should be bearded! |
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the eye
Joined: 29 Jan 2004
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| Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 7:59 pm Post subject: |
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| I'd like to know where it says that beards are forbidden or considered a flagrant violation of an established dress code. |
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plokiju
Joined: 15 Mar 2005
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| Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 9:24 pm Post subject: |
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I don't really understand what's going on. You had it for 3 months and then they demanded that you shave it off. Either out of fear of being fired or whatever you did shave it off. I can understand the anger you felt and the fact they waited that long to bring it but it couldn't have been that important to you at the time if you did get rid of it. I don't see what the big deal about going clean-shaven for the remaining 4 weeks is. If you wanted to be defiant it seems like the time to do was when they asked you originally. It seems to me that you are just taunting them now and expecting the 1 month notice to protect you. I don't understand why you're willing to go head-to-head over it now when you weren't before. You were either being respectful or too scared of being fired when you shaved it off. Bringing it back now makes me think the latter. I'm not in your situation though so go ahead and rock the boat if you want. I just don't understand it.
I don't mean to be the asshole that rains on your beard parade but just trying to give you a different perspective that I hadn't seen on the board. |
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nautilus
Joined: 26 Nov 2005
Location: Je jump, Tu jump, oui jump!
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| Posted: Tue Apr 03, 2007 12:42 am Post subject: |
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[quote="plokiju"]
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| it couldn't have been that important to you at the time if you did get rid of it. |
I didn't think too hard about it at the time. It had never really been important to me earlier.
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| If you wanted to be defiant it seems like the time to do was when they asked you originally. |
Thats true but they took me completely by surprise. After 10 and a half months of getting along with them all well and nobody saying anything sbout it, everyone being friendly it was a bizarre and unexpected thing. It did throw me. I didn't really have time to think about it, although I did think I was close to the end of my contract and it probably wasn't worth bothering about considering the entire entourage of top management had just seemed to think it was of prime importance. It was later, when I went in the next day and it seemed to be a joke to everyone that I got a bit annoyed and started to think about it. Still no sign of the principal today either. |
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