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thepeel
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
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 Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 12:40 am Post subject: |
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| Why the hell did Churchill have the right to tour Palestine and create a Jewish state? |
Irrelevant to my comment. But to address it, who cares. What is done is done.
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And if he saw the hatred of Jews there to begin with, how much of an idiot could he have been to have been a part of the creation of Israel?
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Probably a big one.
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I see the problem in fundamentalism. I am a practicing Christian, but I in no way implore the racist hardline tactics you do BJWD.
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islam is a race? You see, this is what you religious people do. I think maybe you learned it from the leftists. Call whoever you disagree with a racist and then back away.
islam is an idea. Nothing more, nothing less. There is no bearded man in the sky. That notion is merely a hangalong from our ongoing evolution. We are still scared of the dark.
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| I actually have a deep respect for all religon. |
I don't respect grown men who have imaginary friends. And I never will.
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| There are extremist Muslims who preach violence and I believe that this group should be focused on. |
That would be all who believe the koran to be the divine word of god.
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| Just as I believe Christians who preach vilonce should be discouraged. Why in American, which is populated by immigrants, or their offspring, should they not be allowed to come to The U.S. Canada, or any other country? |
There is no right to migration. If the values of a group of people are 180degrees opposite of another, accommodation is impossible. There is no reason that we should permit this. We have no obligation.
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| You take your hatred of religon to the same level as the extremists which make you the same; Clouded by a false sense of faith in what you believe is the only way. |
You are a grown man with an imaginary friend. I don't hate you, I pity you. And as far as the muslims, I'm quite sure that a glance around the world will teach a few lessons about what a muslim minority population means.
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Let's not forget that Hitler started by deporting the Jews. It wasn't until all of the Western countries sent them back, that he started to excecute them. So, what did the west do? We sent them to Palestine. Not a very wise move in my opinion. |
Irrelevant. |
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riverboy
Joined: 03 Jun 2003
Location: Incheon
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| Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 12:55 am Post subject: |
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Ok. I'll give you the fact that I called you a racist as being wrong. My apology. Would bigot be more acceptable?
The thing is you can't disprove the existence of God any more than I can prove it. I see God as an entity, not as a bearded fella. Nice try though. Feel sorry for me all you want, it doesn not affect me and my spiritual beliefs. Nor am I trying to affect yours. I can respect your faith, it is much stronger than mine. You are certain there is no divine force in the universe. Congratulations. Tell me the same thing in about fifty years when you are close to death. Most people seem to recant around that time.
How can you say things are "irrelevant" when they are not? You can use history when it suits you, but when it doesn't it means nothing. Mass deportation will led to the same atrocities as happened in WW2. I look for prevention, not a final solution. |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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| Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 8:26 am Post subject: |
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| Also, Wafa Sultan in an interview in Arabic on Al Jazeera (they put her on the air) made it as if the Jews were the paradigm of civilization while Muslims are behind evil. It ignores what Jews in Israel have done in Lebanon, Palestine etc... |
Not to mention what the pro-Israeli lobby in the US is doing to American foreign policy.
BJWD:
You say that your approach to Islam would be "don't import them, don't invade them." I'm curious as to how far you'd be willing to take the second half of your equation.
American support for Israel inflames Muslim public opinion as much as any invasion does. Would you be in favor of saying to the Israelis: "Look guys, you wanna live your dream of being the plucky little democracy in the desert, knock yourself out. Find someone else to foot the bill, though."
Obviously, that wouldn't be the absolute end of Muslim-sponsored terrorism. However, if you are serious in claiming to believe that US intervention in the middle east is part of the problem, I would say you have to start thinking long and hard about America's support for Israel. |
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mack4289
Joined: 06 Dec 2006
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| Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 6:33 pm Post subject: |
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Indiscriminate monitoring of Muslims would actually make us less secure than we are now. There are 1,209 mosques in America (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_the_United_States#Demographics). Who's going to monitor them? Did you read the 9/11 report? The incompetence of our intelligence agencies is frightening enough when they have a narrow focus. What would they do with the information that comes from 1,209 mosques?
If we make our intelligence agencies monitor every practicing Muslim, how much time are they going to waste on non-threats that could be spent tracking more dangerous people? How much propaganda mileage would every extremist be able to get out of such monitoring? A country that turns any group that isn't inherently criminal into suspects simply for belonging to that group will find themselves wasting a lot of time and money, making the country less safe and embittering a large portion of the population. |
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nautilus
Joined: 26 Nov 2005
Location: Je jump, Tu jump, oui jump!
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| Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 6:00 am Post subject: |
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| riverboy wrote: |
| So, what did the west do? We sent them to Palestine. Not a very wise move in my opinion. |
How can U be a christian, but deny the right of the Jews to their homeland????
Jesus was of the Jews.
Just a reminder. |
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Adventurer
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 7:03 am Post subject: |
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| nautilus wrote: |
| riverboy wrote: |
| So, what did the west do? We sent them to Palestine. Not a very wise move in my opinion. |
How can U be a christian, but deny the right of the Jews to their homeland????
Jesus was of the Jews.
Just a reminder. |
You are taking Jesus in the wrong way. Jesus was not a political leader as you understand it. The Jews during Roman times were looking for someone to lead a revolt. Correct? Was Jesus interested in that? No, he was not. Bar Kochba tried that later and failed. Jesus was universal as he reached out to Canaanites and Romans. The Zionist movement is not a universalist movement. The closest to that among Jewry would be the Left movements like the Bundists of the 1930s-1940s. Why associate Jesus with a certain secular, political movement just because he is Jewish it is like saying every Jew supports every Jew. You do know Isaiah criticized many fellow Jews and so did Jesus. We shouldn't use religion against each other in this world. It is not needed. |
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demaratus
Joined: 13 Apr 2005
Location: Searching for a heart of gold, and I'm gettin' old
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| Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 7:59 am Post subject: |
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I really don't agree with Dr. Sultan. Her views are as extreme as those of Muslim extremists. The fact that she paints all Muslims with the same picture she witnessed in her own life shows her ignorance. In all religions, there are moderates and extremists.
I don't understand (I know the economic motivations) why the western world continues to meddle in the politics of countries in the middle east. This includes our blind support for Israel. I do not support violence in the name of religion, but I believe that these religious extremists get so much support from the average people not because muslims are violent peple but because these people are fed up with foriegn occupation, and the puppet governments which the west installs in their nations. Ever wonder why these people don't attack countries like Argentina, Norway or Taiwan? Because they mind their own business . If these countries meddled in our domestic, economic and religious politics we would probably rise up as well. |
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thepeel
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
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| Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 8:12 am Post subject: |
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| On the other hand wrote: |
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| Also, Wafa Sultan in an interview in Arabic on Al Jazeera (they put her on the air) made it as if the Jews were the paradigm of civilization while Muslims are behind evil. It ignores what Jews in Israel have done in Lebanon, Palestine etc... |
Not to mention what the pro-Israeli lobby in the US is doing to American foreign policy.
BJWD:
You say that your approach to Islam would be "don't import them, don't invade them." I'm curious as to how far you'd be willing to take the second half of your equation.
American support for Israel inflames Muslim public opinion as much as any invasion does. Would you be in favor of saying to the Israelis: "Look guys, you wanna live your dream of being the plucky little democracy in the desert, knock yourself out. Find someone else to foot the bill, though."
Obviously, that wouldn't be the absolute end of Muslim-sponsored terrorism. However, if you are serious in claiming to believe that US intervention in the middle east is part of the problem, I would say you have to start thinking long and hard about America's support for Israel. |
I've never (I think) expressed support for Israel beyond a general feeling that the state of Israel is likely the "best" in the region. I think the American aid to Israel and the Palestinians and the Egyptians and the Saudis and the rest of them distorts the whole situation. Do away with it.
I may be bigoted towards one of the worst ideas in the history of man, but I'm gawddamn consistent. |
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Vicissitude
Joined: 27 Feb 2007
Location: Chef School
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