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bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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 Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 1:36 pm Post subject: |
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| On the other hand wrote: |
| I think it would be a hoot if the Americans actually caught OBL and put him on trial in the states, in a regular courtroom. |
 Yeah, that would be pretty comical. I'd love to see that one. |
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chris_J2
Joined: 17 Apr 2006
Location: From Brisbane, Au.
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| Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 2:26 pm Post subject: OBL |
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There are 160,000 google hits for 'Sadaam' & 6,230,000 for 'Saddam'. I'll use Saddam in future. And 'they' is the US authorities.
To those who would contradict and state that the killing of Osama would only make him a martyr, this article nicely sums up my views:
http://www.opednews.com/articles/opedne_mary_mac_070912_osama_bin_laden_says.htm
Normally, I would oppose capital punishment, but would be prepared to make an exception for OBL.
An interesting critique on that article here:
Mac McKinney
Will the Real Corpse Please Stand Up
"Your rhetoric is all fine and dandy, Mary, except for one glaring problem. You have misdirected your target. You should be saying the actor playing Osama bin Laden is a coward, because that is not bin Laden in the newest tapes. Oh, but he dyed his beard or put on a false one, propagandists are saying. BS I say. The American media is so far down the rabbit hole that they will believe anything the government shovels their way.
Go to http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/osama_newfake.html if you want some exposition on this. The website superimposes the newest face on the original face of bin Laden, and guess what? They don't match. Bin Laden has likely been dead since Nov 2001. Look at this article from Fox news of all places:
Report: Bin Laden Already Dead (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,41576,00.html )
Wednesday, December 26, 2001
Usama bin Laden has died a peaceful death due to an untreated lung complication, the Pakistan Observer reported, citing a Taliban leader who allegedly attended the funeral of the Al Qaeda leader.
"The Coalition troops are engaged in a mad search operation but they would never be able to fulfill their cherished goal of getting Usama alive or dead," the source said.
Bin Laden, according to the source, was suffering from a serious lung complication and succumbed to the disease in mid-December, in the vicinity of the Tora Bora mountains. The source claimed that bin Laden was laid to rest honorably in his last abode and his grave was made as per his Wahabi belief.
About 30 close associates of bin Laden in Al Qaeda, including his most trusted and personal bodyguards, his family members and some "Taliban friends," attended the funeral rites. A volley of bullets was also fired to pay final tribute to the "great leader."
The Taliban source who claims to have seen bin Laden's face before burial said "he looked pale ... but calm, relaxed and confident."
Asked whether bin Laden had any feelings of remorse before death, the source vehemently said "no." Instead, he said, bin Laden was proud that he succeeded in his mission of igniting awareness amongst Muslims about hegemonistic designs and conspiracies of "pagans" against Islam. Bin Laden, he said, held the view that the sacrifice of a few hundred people in Afghanistan was nothing, as those who laid their lives in creating an atmosphere of resistance will be adequately rewarded by Almighty Allah.
When asked where bin Laden was buried, the source said, "I am sure that like other places in Tora Bora, that particular place too must have vanished."
You can also go to http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/binladen_9-11_index.html to read an extensive dosier about the bin Laden phenomena, and http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/osama_dead.html to read more about the "Dead" bin Laden.
Make up your mind after you do some hard research. Please don't just funnel archetypal myths to everyone." |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 3:15 pm Post subject: |
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| chris_J2 wrote: |
| There are 160,000 google hits for 'Sadaam' & 6,230,000 for 'Saddam'. I'll use Saddam in future. And 'they' is the US authorities. |
First, if 160,000 people jumped off a cliff, would you follow them into the abyss...?
Second, my understanding is that Iraqi and not American authorities executed Saddam -- and it was definitely Iraqi and not American authorities who executed him the particular way that they choose to do it.
You, like so many others here, are a bit too eager to pin each and every single act in world affairs on the American government. |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 3:25 pm Post subject: Re: OBL |
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| chris_J2 wrote: |
There are 160,000 google hits for 'Sadaam' & 6,230,000 for 'Saddam'. I'll use Saddam in future. And 'they' is the US authorities.
To those who would contradict and state that the killing of Osama would only make him a martyr, this article nicely sums up my views:
http://www.opednews.com/articles/opedne_mary_mac_070912_osama_bin_laden_says.htm
Normally, I would oppose capital punishment, but would be prepared to make an exception for OBL.
An interesting critique on that article here:
Mac McKinney
Will the Real Corpse Please Stand Up
"Your rhetoric is all fine and dandy, Mary, except for one glaring problem. You have misdirected your target. You should be saying the actor playing Osama bin Laden is a coward, because that is not bin Laden in the newest tapes. Oh, but he dyed his beard or put on a false one, propagandists are saying. BS I say. The American media is so far down the rabbit hole that they will believe anything the government shovels their way.
Go to http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/osama_newfake.html if you want some exposition on this. The website superimposes the newest face on the original face of bin Laden, and guess what? They don't match. Bin Laden has likely been dead since Nov 2001. Look at this article from Fox news of all places:
Report: Bin Laden Already Dead (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,41576,00.html )
Wednesday, December 26, 2001
Usama bin Laden has died a peaceful death due to an untreated lung complication, the Pakistan Observer reported, citing a Taliban leader who allegedly attended the funeral of the Al Qaeda leader.
"The Coalition troops are engaged in a mad search operation but they would never be able to fulfill their cherished goal of getting Usama alive or dead," the source said.
Bin Laden, according to the source, was suffering from a serious lung complication and succumbed to the disease in mid-December, in the vicinity of the Tora Bora mountains. The source claimed that bin Laden was laid to rest honorably in his last abode and his grave was made as per his Wahabi belief.
About 30 close associates of bin Laden in Al Qaeda, including his most trusted and personal bodyguards, his family members and some "Taliban friends," attended the funeral rites. A volley of bullets was also fired to pay final tribute to the "great leader."
The Taliban source who claims to have seen bin Laden's face before burial said "he looked pale ... but calm, relaxed and confident."
Asked whether bin Laden had any feelings of remorse before death, the source vehemently said "no." Instead, he said, bin Laden was proud that he succeeded in his mission of igniting awareness amongst Muslims about hegemonistic designs and conspiracies of "pagans" against Islam. Bin Laden, he said, held the view that the sacrifice of a few hundred people in Afghanistan was nothing, as those who laid their lives in creating an atmosphere of resistance will be adequately rewarded by Almighty Allah.
When asked where bin Laden was buried, the source said, "I am sure that like other places in Tora Bora, that particular place too must have vanished."
You can also go to http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/binladen_9-11_index.html to read an extensive dosier about the bin Laden phenomena, and http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/osama_dead.html to read more about the "Dead" bin Laden.
Make up your mind after you do some hard research. Please don't just funnel archetypal myths to everyone." |
You think that whatreallyhappened a 9-11 conspiracy site run by a holocaust denier is a good source?  |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 3:27 pm Post subject: |
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| On the other hand wrote: |
| I think it would be a hoot if the Americans actually caught OBL and put him on trial in the states, in a regular courtroom. |
I agree. He wouldn't get off.
But if he goes to Federal Court can he get the Death Penalty? I think he can... |
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Dome Vans
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 4:46 pm Post subject: |
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Gopher blindly added:
| Quote: |
| Second, my understanding is that Iraqi and not American authorities executed Saddam -- and it was definitely Iraqi and not American authorities who executed him the particular way that they choose to do it. |
Yeh right! If you think that the Iraqis gave Saddam a trial that wasn't at all meddled with by Bush you're dumber than we thought. If anything it was a done deal. He was too dangerous alive or to be given a 'proper' tria. Then we might have found something out about the US and their funding, support, the fact he was on the CIA payroll and other uncomfortable facts that would have rained on the US's parade. If you think politics is that shallow Gopher, I suggest you stop watching CNN, pick up a politics book and read a little. |
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Dome Vans
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 4:54 pm Post subject: |
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Back to the OP.
If he is still alive, which I doubt it. It's amazingly handy to still be able to show him though, just to keep the American people panic stricken and continue on the US's holy crusade in the Middle East.
I would like for him to tried by the Hague. Then he'll get a fair trial. In which we find out the US supported him, have funded other Al Qaeda groups, 9/11 was allowed to happen by the US government. Completely blowing to pieces the US 'freedom fighter' image, that by definition is what Al Qaeda are. Then when he's acquitted he can retire to a small Gite in France where he grows his own vegetables and listen to stevie wonder in the evenings. Sleeping under his american flag duvet he was given by Bush for christmas.
Nice to hear the usual bile being spewed by the Neo-cons on this thread. Just keep nodding your head when your government tells you what to do. |
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gdimension
Joined: 05 Jul 2005
Location: Jeju
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| Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 5:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Dome Vans wrote: |
| He was too dangerous alive or to be given a 'proper' tria. Then we might have found something out about the US and their funding, support, the fact he was on the CIA payroll and other uncomfortable facts that would have rained on the US's parade. |
If we didn't find out about these "uncomfortable facts" because he wasn't given a proper trial, how did you find out about them?
Twilight zone. |
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Pligganease
Joined: 14 Sep 2004
Location: The deep south...
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| Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 5:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Dome Vans wrote: |
Yeah right! If you think that the Iraqis gave Saddam a trial that wasn't at all meddled with by Bush you're dumber than we thought. If anything it was a done deal. He was too dangerous alive or to be given a 'proper' trial. Then we might have found something out about the US and their funding, support, the fact he was on the CIA payroll and other uncomfortable facts that would have rained on the US's parade. If you think politics is that shallow Gopher, I suggest you stop watching CNN, pick up a politics book and read a little. |
Man, you're good. You're like an encyclopedia of ".org" Still, though... I have to wonder if you can prove anything you're saying or you are just Hershey-squirting your anti-Americanism. |
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Pligganease
Joined: 14 Sep 2004
Location: The deep south...
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| Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 5:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Dome Vans wrote: |
| Nice to hear the usual bile being spewed by the Neo-cons on this thread. Just keep nodding your head when your government tells you what to do. |
Are you trying to be ironic?
Bile is bitter, and it is blatantly obvious that the only thing bitter around here is you. |
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Dome Vans
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 5:29 pm Post subject: |
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6163938.stm
| Quote: |
Indefensible penalty'
The US-led Coalition Provisional Authority decided that the Dujail trial would be held by an Iraqi court in Iraq, ruling out an international tribunal or a mixed Iraqi-international court under UN auspices, the HRW report said.
Counsel for Saddam Hussein
Three defence lawyers were murdered during the trial
Because Iraqi lawyers and judges had been isolated from international criminal law, this decision resulted in a court that lacked the expertise to prosecute crimes against humanity on its own, the report said.
Defence counsel come under criticism in the report for trying to use the court as a political platform.
Meanwhile, the Iraqi government was guilty of influencing the independence of the judges, the report said, to the extent that the first chief judge resigned.
"Under such circumstances the soundness of the verdict is questionable," HRW concludes.
"In addition, the imposition of the death penalty - an inherently cruel and inhumane punishment - in the wake of an unfair trial is indefensible." |
Why not an international court? America knew he'd get a unfair trial and be despatched. Under the pretenses of a 'fair trial' by his own people. Iraqi government guilty of influencing, hmmmm, is this the same government that was chosen by the US government? or puppet government as it is well known.
As I mentioned before if you think politics is shallow when it comes to issues like this you need open your eyes. |
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Dome Vans
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 5:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Pligganease wrote: |
| Dome Vans wrote: |
Yeah right! If you think that the Iraqis gave Saddam a trial that wasn't at all meddled with by Bush you're dumber than we thought. If anything it was a done deal. He was too dangerous alive or to be given a 'proper' trial. Then we might have found something out about the US and their funding, support, the fact he was on the CIA payroll and other uncomfortable facts that would have rained on the US's parade. If you think politics is that shallow Gopher, I suggest you stop watching CNN, pick up a politics book and read a little. |
Man, you're good. You're like an encyclopedia of ".org" Still, though... I have to wonder if you can prove anything you're saying or you are just Hershey-squirting your anti-Americanism. |
Again piganese, I am at your service, great teacher. Always very manly and wise of you to have your usual putdown pointing out a couple of spelling mistakes.
| Quote: |
| and we are never more deceived than when we mistake gravity for greatness, solemnity for science, and pomposity for erudition.� |
Charles Caleb Colton. |
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chris_J2
Joined: 17 Apr 2006
Location: From Brisbane, Au.
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| Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 10:05 pm Post subject: OBL |
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Gopher wrote:
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First, if 160,000 people jumped off a cliff, would you follow them into the abyss...?
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No. Which is why I'll be spelling it 'Saddam' in future. Good. That's the semantics out of the way.
2nd: Do you really think Saddam would have been brought to trial & execution, without US intervention?
'Saddam was placed at the top of the U.S.list of "most-wanted Iraqis." In July 2003, his sons Uday and Qusay and 14-year-old grandson Mustapha were killed in a three-hour [13] gunfight with U.S. forces.
On December 14, 2003, U.S. administrator in Iraq Paul Bremer announced that Saddam Hussein had been captured at a farmhouse in ad-Dawr near Tikrit." "According to U.S. military sources, following his capture by U.S. forces on December 13, Saddam was trasported to a U.S. base near Tikrit, and later taken to the U.S. base near Baghdad." No mention of "Iraqi", until the actual execution.
(Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saddam_Hussein#Incarceration_and_trial)
Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
My original source was http://www.opednews.com/articles/opedne_mary_mac_070912_osama_bin_laden_says.htm
The hyperlink within was provided by Mac McKinney, not me. I agree that the 9/11 conspiracy theory is shaky at best, & that anyone supporting holocaust denial seriously jeopardizes their credibility, if not totally destroys it. An interesting read only. Not necessarily factual.
Dome Vans:
I am kind of leaning towards the theory that Osama is already dead, train of thought, too. No animated or recent shots of Osama were included in the latest video release. To me, that rings alarm bells.
Last edited by chris_J2 on Wed Sep 12, 2007 10:27 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Dome Vans
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 10:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
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US casts doubt on bin Laden's latest message
By Toby Harnden in Washington
Last Updated: 11:52pm GMT 27/12/2001Page 1 of 2
OSAMA BIN LADEN heaped praise on 'the 19 students who shook the American empire' in the September 11 attacks in a chilling video shown in full last night by an Arab television station.
The recording was dismissed by the Bush administration yesterday as sick propaganda possibly designed to mask the fact the al-Qa'eda leader was already dead. |
American officials argued that bin Laden's frequent references to US support for Israel were a bogus justification for his terrorism because in the "dinner party" tape of a private conversation, there was no mention of the Middle East.
That tape was released by the Bush administration a fortnight ago. |
Ok back in 2001, they said he was probably dead.
| Quote: |
When you hear a threat which is "probably" made by bin Laden, just remember that he's "probably" dead.
Also think about who benefits from your believing he's alive. |
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/osama_dead.html
| Quote: |
| That tape was released by the Bush administration |
| Quote: |
| This tape was released by the Bush administration |
This to me is the biggest reason to worry about the authenticity of any material.
| Quote: |
| The reason why the American request went unanswered was that the Israelis did not have any substantial raw intelligence information about Bin Laden and his friends. And the reason for this is that Israel was not on Bin Laden's hit list. And since Bin Laden was not threatening Israel, the Israelis did not threaten him. He was never on the annual list of Islamist extremists issued by the espionage and security services. |
Hold on I thought Al Qaeda was after Israel, that was part of America's justification. |
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Pligganease
Joined: 14 Sep 2004
Location: The deep south...
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| Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 10:30 pm Post subject: |
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Last edited by Pligganease on Wed Sep 12, 2007 10:31 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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