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Is Vegetarianism a Religion?
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Well, IS it?
Yes, it's such a strongly-held belief system that it might as well be treated that way.
32%
 32%  [ 13 ]
No, it's a practice within many sects of many faiths, but it is not a religion by itself.
45%
 45%  [ 18 ]
Why can't we all just get along?
22%
 22%  [ 9 ]
Total Votes : 40

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Rteacher



Joined: 23 May 2005
Location: Western MA, USA

PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2008 10:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The current Wikipedia article on "Vegetarianism and Religion" is a pretty good survey, I think... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vegetarianism_and_religion

This other site, "Vegetarianism and the Major World Religions" is more from a vegetarian perspective:
www.serv-online.org/pamphlet2005.htm

Here's it's "Conclusion:"

Vegetarianism has been a common thread among the major world religions, even if only a minority have adopted the diet as an expression of their faith. For many people of faith, vegetarianism reflects the Golden Rule: Christianity � �So, whatever you wish that men would do to you, do so to them� (Matthew 7:12); Judaism � �Do not do unto others what you would not wish to be done to yourself � that is the entire Torah, the rest is commentary� (Babylonian Talmud); Islam � �No one of you is a believer until he desires for his brother that which he desires for himself�; Bah�'� Faith � �Blessed is he that preferreth his brother to himself�; Taoism � �Regard your neighbor�s gain as your own gain, and your neighbor�s loss as your own loss�; Hinduism � �This is the sum of duty: do naught to others that which if done to thee would cause pain�; Jainism � �A man should wander about treating all creatures as he himself would be treated�; Buddhism � �Hurt not others with that which pains yourself.�

With factory farming torturing animals on a scale unprecedented in human history and with the growing environmental crisis threatening human civilization, the wisdom of the world�s religions to respect nature and all its inhabitants has become much more than an expression of ideal behavior. It has become a global imperative.


This link presents the Vedic cultural view of meat-eating, including this quote from the introduction of Bhagavad-gita As It Is:

"In this world man is not meant to toil like hogs. He must be intelligent to realize the importance of human life and refuse to act like an ordinary animal. A human being should realize the aim of his life, and this direction is given in all Vedic literatures, and the essence is given in Bhagavad-gita. Vedic literature is meant for human beings, not for animals. Animals can kill other living animals, and there is no question of sin on their part, but if a man kills an animal for the satisfaction of his uncontrolled taste, he must be responsible for breaking the laws of nature. In the Bhagavad-gita it is clearly explained that there are three kinds of activities according to the different modes of nature: the activities of goodness, of passion and of ignorance. Similarly, there are three kinds of eatables also: eatables in goodness, passion and ignorance. All of this is clearly described, and if we properly utilize the instructions of Bhagavad-gita, then our whole life will become purified, and ultimately we will be able to reach the destination which is beyond this material sky. That destination is called the sanatana sky, the eternal spiritual sky."
http://www.harekrsna.com/practice/4regs/vegetarian/dharma.htm
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The Bobster



Joined: 15 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2008 3:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Regarding "bramble", I think you've unfairly charactarized her as a supporter of terrorism because of her sharing some of the same ideals and goals espoused by radical activist groups

RTeacher, you need to look at this statement of yours one more time. You seem to be indicating that I confused someone's support of goals with support for their methods. Now, after seeing what this person says, you need to fess up and confirm that you understand that she DOES in fact support violence followed by running and hiding in the shadows as a valid form of political activity.


Rteacher wrote:
There are degrees of terrorism, and I think that the term is best reserved for those groups who instill fear by engaging in the brutal killing of living beings - especially humans.

I'm disappointed, I must say.

Random House -->terrorism:"the use of violence and threats to intimidate or coerce, esp. for political purposes." I don't see any indication that killing needs to occur in order for the word to pertain.

In a perfect world, I too could change the meanings of words on a whim in order to avoid backpedaling and admitting an earlier statement was wrong. The person you have spoken of as merely being a supporter of groups with similar goals ... well, RT, this person does in fact support the violent methods they employ as well. This is extremism, and this is why it is dangerous.

You are too smart to do this and think it will fly. Hence, my disappointment.

Again, in bold red ink : "I think it�s incredibly arrogant for any of us to dismiss direct action out of hand (...) I just don�t like the idea of dismissing illegal tactics in principle."

The "direct action" spoken here is violent action, much of it carried out in anger, not love, if the slogans painted on walls are any indication. And the fear that is their intent damages people just to the same extent as a physical blow - and RT, there is no way to reassure me that someone who supports such violence today might not take part in it tomorrow. Or that violence against mere property and harassing phone call in the night will be enough to contain their rage.

Quote:
And supporting a group - or cause (eg: stopping abortions) that may include some radical/fanatical elements who at some point may resort to killing does not necessarily indicate unconditional support for such real acts of terror - especially if the group doesn't sanction or encourage such acts ...

This is not what we are talking about. Reasonable people can disagree about abortion and still confine their political action to reasoned or emotional debate and efforts to persuade the populace or provide the courts and legislaors with convincing arguments for their side - if I understand you, I think you are suggesting something more, that people who support groups who plant bombs in clinics or make death threats against doctors are engaging in valid political discourse.

Is that what you mean? Do you think merely "supporting goals" adequately describes the person who made the statemnt I put in bright red ink above? Do you really?

The person in these forums you are defending does morre than support the goals of the groups mentiooned, she also supports their tactics as well. It is not wrong to call such a person a supporter of terrorist organizations because that is exactly the case ... and creating your own definition of the word for your own convenience is a sad thing to try to do, RT.

Very sad.

The attitudes you are defending are precisely those that characterize the fanaticism I spoke of in the OP. It's dangerous, and there's no love in it anywhere, and people who support this kind of thinking and this kind of action are a source of anxiety for anyone who cares about the future of a free society.

What is the solution, if you know you are right, and the world keeps on doing the wrong thing? Well, you keep on working to change people's minds, that's what, keep working for 500 years if necessary - but you cannot bring about a just world by methods that are unjust, that are nothing more than thuggery and coercion.

I think you know that, and I regret having to point out that a serious and honest discussion between reasonable people cannot occur when one decides to change the meanings of words for their own benefit.

Thanks for the quote from the Bhagavad-gita, but I had already suspected that vegetarianism in many world religions ... in fact, I thought I knew it already, and if there's some further relevance you intended that I missed I'll be happy to listen to that also.
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Rteacher



Joined: 23 May 2005
Location: Western MA, USA

PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2008 9:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The term "terrorist" has a very heavy connotation, which can - and specifically has been - exploited politically by groups seeking to maintain the status quo (in their abusive exploitation of animals and the environment...)

According to the Wikipedia article, "terrorism" has over 100 definitions, and one terroism expert noted that the "only general characteristic generally agreed upon is that terrorism involves violence and the threat of violence" .
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Definition_of_terrorism

That is such a broad definition that a mother warning her unruly child to stop acting-up in a supermarket and applying a firm smack to the kid's behind could be considered a "terrorist" (though another loaded, pejoritave term, "child-abuser" is usually used by those ideologically opposed to any parental use of physical force...)

In the history of U.S. labor-management relations, many union activists have made threats and caused some damage to property and businesses without being labeled terrorists ...

I think that the general public associates the term "terrorist" with groups that make threats of brutal killings and widespread destruction against their political targets and then follow through with deadly force in a horrifying way.

The examples given by "the bobster" to indicate terrorist acts on the part the Animal Liberation Front are relatively mild considering the heavy connotation carried by the term.

Such acts - when illegal - most often could be denoted by another legal term such as "vandalism", "disorderly conduct", or "tortious interference with a business" ...

Business interests whose existence largely depends on morally dubious abuse and slaughter of animals and destruction of the environment have lobbied the government to insidiously broaden the definition of terrorist to include even non-violent methods used by animal rights and environmentalist groups:

Acts of civil disobedience which are nonviolent in nature cannot be properly referred to as "eco-terrorism", even though they might be annoying or disruptive to others. However, some proposed laws are raising civil rights concerns by using an all-encompassing definition that could be interpreted to include virtually all environmental protests, even those that would otherwise be legal. For example, a bill proposed by the American Legislative Exchange Council (ALEC) in Texas called the "Animal and Ecological Terrorism Act", begins with the description, "An act relating to criminal offenses involving acts against certain activities involving animals or involving natural resources and to civil consequences arising from convictions of those offenses." The bill defines an "animal rights or ecological terrorist organization" as "two or more persons organized for the purpose of supporting any politically motivated activity intended to obstruct or deter any person from participating in an activity involving animals or an activity involving natural resources."[5]

Environmentalists have argued that "eco-terrorism" should mean the opposite of its current accepted meaning. They say that persons, companies and governments engaging in ecologically irresponsible activities such as clearcutting of forests are committing "terrorism" against the environment.[6] This counter-definition is also sometimes used rhetorically to express the environmentalist point of view, or to justify their actions. Canadian environmentalist David Suzuki, for instance, has described the former Prime Minister of Australia, John Howard, as an "eco-terrorist" for failing to abide by the Kyoto Protocol on climate change.[6

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eco-terrorism

I personally think that it's inappropriate and shameful for the U.S. government to continue to give special protection and support to the beef industry, factory-farmers, and other business interests that destructively exploit animals and the environment.
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The Bobster



Joined: 15 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2008 3:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rteacher wrote:
The term "terrorist" has a very heavy connotation

I agree wholeheartedly. It's a word that has some meaning, and I think you agree with me about what it does mean - it's more than just the kind of fraternity pranks you seem to think I'm talking about.

Quote:
The examples given by "the bobster" to indicate terrorist acts on the part the Animal Liberation Front are relatively mild considering the heavy connotation carried by the term.

Such acts - when illegal - most often could be denoted by another legal term such as "vandalism", "disorderly conduct", or "tortious interference with a business" ...

Let's remember that ALF's website lists "actions" (read: crimes) that are self-reported - these are the things done in their name that they are willing to take credit for, in other words. We will search in vain for accounts of assaults committed against persons by members of this groups, or anyone claiming to be a member. We must take it on faith that such has never occurred ... surely, we don't have to wonder if they would tell us, do we?

Oh, wait, we don't have to wonder. Here's a group closely affiliated with ALF, and containing many of the same individual members. SHAC

Brian Cass was getting out of his car at his home in England on a clear night in February 2001, when he was surrounded by three masked men wielding heavy, wooden objects. Some news reports describe them as baseball bats, others as pickaxe handles. Whatever their weapons, they started to beat the 53-year-old Cass on the head and body without any warning. In a few short moments, his hair and jacket were soaked through with blood.

A neighbor tried to intervene and help him, but was immobilized by a spray of CS gas, in the face, by one of Cass�s attackers. Months later, when the lead attacker was arrested and sentenced to three years in prison, Cass� marketing director Andrew Gay was attacked on his doorstep with a chemical spray to his eyes, leaving him temporarily blinded and writhing in pain in front of his wife and young daughter.

British thirty-somethings Paul and Heather Saunders were entertaining friends one autumn night in 2000 when they heard two loud crashes from the direction of their front patio. They ran toward the noise to find that two large chunks of dried cement had been thrown through their plate-glass patio doors. The two vandals they saw running away paused for a moment, to pour paint stripper all over their guests� car.

Nearly five months later, a strange package was delivered to the house, addressed to Heather. The bomb squad in their town found enough explosives inside to kill anyone who might have dared to open it.


Doesn't sound much like Thoreau, Gandhi or Rev King, does it?

Quote:
I personally think that it's inappropriate and shameful for the U.S. government to continue to give special protection and support to the beef industry, factory-farmers, and other business interests that destructively exploit animals and the environment.

You are entitled to your personal thoughts, but I don't see any "special protection" going on. Civil law protects legal businesses from violence being perpetrated upon them in just the way that civil law protects you from being mugged on a street corner by gangsters, common criminals or deranged lunatics with rage and violence in their eyes and in their hearts.

I can understand that perhaps you'd like to see agribusiness outlawed, and you know, there are some laws I'd like to change as well. You can't get there by means of clandestine violence and fear.

To quote Dr King, if you'll allow me:

"The aftermath of nonviolence is the creation of the beloved community, while the aftermath of violence is tragic bitterness."

Um, and if you don't mind, I'm going to stick with Random House as a source for the meanings of words, even when it would be more convenient to go to wikipedia, which has been known to change it's text from day to day
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Bramble



Joined: 26 Jan 2007
Location: National treasures need homes

PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2008 3:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Bobster wrote:
blah blah blah blah blah �.

Oh, wait, we don't have to wonder. Here's a group closely affiliated with ALF, and containing many of the same individual members. SHAC


Where do you get that, exactly? The ALF is an underground movement. No one knows who its �members� are, unless they get convicted of something. Prove that SHAC and the ALF have any members in common.

Quote:
Quote:
I personally think that it's inappropriate and shameful for the U.S. government to continue to give special protection and support to the beef industry, factory-farmers, and other business interests that destructively exploit animals and the environment.

You are entitled to your personal thoughts, but I don't see any "special protection" going on. Civil law protects legal businesses from violence being perpetrated upon them in just the way that civil law protects you from being mugged on a street corner by gangsters, common criminals or deranged lunatics with rage and violence in their eyes and in their hearts.


Then you haven�t been paying attention.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animal_Enterprise_Terrorism_Act
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The Bobster



Joined: 15 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2008 6:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bramble wrote:
Where do you get that, exactly? The ALF is an underground movement. No one knows who its �members� are, unless they get convicted of something. Prove that SHAC and the ALF have any members in common.

Please explain the difference between "underground movement" and "terrorist organization." There isn't one. They use violence for political goals, and they hurt people, employing secrecy to run away into shadows and get ready to do it again. The "cell" structure you describe is identical to that used decades ago by The Red Brigade and The Bader Meinhoff, and yes, identical to that employed by Al Queda both before 9/11 and right now.

Anyway, you clearly didn't read the article you highlighted and quoted.

Considering that three out of SHAC�s four main directors in the U.S. have ties to crimes claimed by ALF, and that the two keynote speakers at SHAC�s December 2002 protest event (Rodney Coronado and Robin Webb) are both convicted ALF criminals, it�s hard to imagine that there�s no real connection there.

and

The charade breaks down when these thugs are caught, as with Dave Blenkinsop, who eventually pleaded guilty to the savage beating of Huntingdon CEO Brian Cass. Blenkinsop was jailed shortly thereafter for bombing four poultry trucks in Great Britain. SHAC took �credit� for his baseball bat, and ALF for his gasoline can.

I'm using the dark red color because these are people with blood on their hands, thinking bloody thoughts without a shred of honor, compassion or even the tiniest clue what civil disobedience is all about. They are dangerous people. You should not support them.

Quote:
Then you haven�t been paying attention.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animal_Enterprise_Terrorism_Act

Thanks for the link. Why didn't you quote from it? Well, gee, maybe because ... it's about violence, isn't it? It does nothing more than seek to incarcerate those who engage in acts of "force, violence, and threats involving animal enterprises." This is a bad thing? Exactly how so?

The law does not "prohibit any expressive conduct (including peaceful picketing or other peaceful demonstration) protected from legal prohibition by the First Amendment to the Constitution,"[1]

and

The American Kennel Club endorsed the bill, because it contains "explicit language" which protects the right of protesters to engage in "peaceful picketing or other peaceful demonstration."[11] Frankie Trull, president of the National Association for Biomedical Research described as "just silly" fears that peaceful protest would be criminalized by the bill, believing it would only apply when protesters "harass someone to the extent that they fear for their safety."

Please read these things before you talk about them.

Personally, I think this law is unnecessary, and I suspect it will be struck down the first time someone is arrested and charged with it and it gets before a judge. There are already laws against extortion, arson, violent acts against citizens.

But, you know what? I can't help but notice that even while you try to deny there is any connection between ALF and SHAC, you still have not nothing negative to say even against SHAC - even after you have been shown what these people are doing and what they are capable of, you STILL do not cop to the fact that they are a terror group, and and you STILL do not condemn the mayhem they are responsible for.

I wish you would do that. I wish you would clearly state out loud that you think violence is the wrong way to make meaningful changes to the political landscape. I wish you would stop supporting terror.

Convicted arsonist and ALF activist Rod Coronado has renounced violent political action.

In September, 2006, Coronado sent an open letter to supporters from his prison cell in Florence, Arizona, before his release on March 23, 2007.[18] In the letter, he announced his commitment to social change through non-destructive means. Citing his desire to raise his young son without teaching him that "violence is a necessary evil", Coronado expressed hope that others in the earth and animal liberation movements would consider more "peaceful" methods.

I hope you'll consider it, too. He sounds like a good guy who had to get older before he got wiser. It 's something you could think about.


Last edited by The Bobster on Sun Feb 17, 2008 6:32 pm; edited 1 time in total
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SuperFly



Joined: 09 Jul 2003
Location: In the doghouse

PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2008 7:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

When Little Rock, Arkansas financier Warren Stephens bought a considerable stake in HLS, effectively bailing out the beleaguered company, SHAC regrouped in the United StatesIt made Philadelphia its new base of operations, and put a foursome of angry young Americans in charge. One, Kevin Jonas, had an undeniable history with the terrorist Animal Liberation Front (ALF), a group that the FBI already considered America�s most serious domestic terror threat. At the national �Animal Rights 2001� convention, SHAC underscored this relationship by sharing a table with the criminal ALF and its sister group, the Earth Liberation Front (ELF).

Bramble part of a terrorist group? Say it isn't so!


Last edited by SuperFly on Thu Feb 21, 2008 12:17 am; edited 2 times in total
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Scarlet13



Joined: 10 Apr 2007
Location: Changwon

PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2008 8:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Bobster wrote:
3. Vegetarians will not see this as rude, however, because they believe that the rightness of their opinions supercedes any social grace and courtesy - as I've said in other discussions, this is attitude of moral certitude is nothing but arrogance, and an arrogance that cloaks itself in kindness, which makes it rather more annoying to some of us.



With that statement you are judging a massive amount of people and making sweeping generalizations, that does make you look very arrogant and just a scootch ignorant.
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rD.NaTas



Joined: 06 Nov 2007
Location: changwon

PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 11:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

scootch
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The Bobster



Joined: 15 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 11:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Scarlet13 wrote:
The Bobster wrote:
3. Vegetarians will not see this as rude, however, because they believe that the rightness of their opinions supercedes any social grace and courtesy - as I've said in other discussions, this is attitude of moral certitude is nothing but arrogance, and an arrogance that cloaks itself in kindness, which makes it rather more annoying to some of us.

With that statement you are judging a massive amount of people and making sweeping generalizations, that does make you look very arrogant and just a scootch ignorant.

It's a generalization, but we are allowed to generalize when our personal experiences tally a particuilar way with great frequency.

What you quoted above left an unclear reference, because "this" refers to something mentioned in a previous item [2.], viz:

Quote:
Asking others to succumb to your personal preferences and political notions is at best rude and unkind - at worst, it borders on fascism.


I guess, first, I need to ask if you disagree that - okay, many - vegetarians as that others make sacrifices to accord with thier dietary choices? Because I can cite many many Thanksgiving dinners where the menu needed adjustment, many evenings out with friends where the restaurant of choice needed to be changed, many other examples of times and places where some expenditure of energy or time was requiredor some sacrifice had to be made by others due to vegetarians who joined the party.

And we omnivores generally don't mind, you know, because we like our vegetarian friends and we want them to be comfortable.

First of all, I need you to admit that this happens, and quite often, often enough to justify a general statement. From there we move on to second part, which is ...

In not a single instance of the countless examples I could cite for you can I recall the vegetarian friends expressing gratitude for the extra effort others will undertake on their behalf, nor can I recall apologies being made, of the sort, "Gee, sorry, if you guys were were planning on the steak restaurant, but I'm glad we're going to the pasta place instead."

And why? Well, most vegetarians don't eat meat because they feel it's the right thing to do. People don't apologize for doing the right thing, nor do they express gratitude to others for assisting them in the project.

And it's okay to do the right thing. Commendable, in fact. But asking others to participate in your particular version of it when they might not have the same notion about it as you ... that's a different thing. And, after having so asked, and after having been granted, to feel that some expression of recognition and courtesy is not applicable - um, yeah, arrogant.

Not saying there does not exist anywhere a veggie who will be polite and say the right words to their omnivore friends who make allowances for them - I am saying that it happens rarely enough that a general statement can be made with some degree of accuracy.

Another generalization, but I think it's true: vegetarians don't compromise, and when they do, they just might be allowed to be called vegetarians. If I observed a veggie pal at Christmas dinner saying, "Well, I guess I could eat a little of the roast beef just for this family occasion, because I know it'll make mom happy after all the work she did," then I think I would expect others to say, "Well, he's not a REAL vegetarian, then."

See, now, all I can really report is what I've seen with my eyes, and I've ever seen this scenario occur, nor have I ever heard one of my veggie friends say, "Hey, let's go to that galbi place you guys like so much, and I'll have some naeng myeong and pick out the pieces of meat from the noodles - it's the least I can do, just once, for all the times you all have had to accomodate me. Really, it's cool. I just wanna hang out with you guys, same as you like hangin' with me."

Now, if you're going to tell me that this happens, then I'll have to say that it's so rare as to be statistically negligible. And if you have a better reason than arrogance, then please, do tell.
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kermo



Joined: 01 Sep 2004
Location: Eating eggs, with a comb, out of a shoe.

PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 10:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You've pretty much ground this axe to a fine powder now, haven't you?
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littlelisa



Joined: 12 Jun 2007
Location: Seoul

PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 11:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
See, now, all I can really report is what I've seen with my eyes, and I've ever seen this scenario occur, nor have I ever heard one of my veggie friends say, "Hey, let's go to that galbi place you guys like so much, and I'll have some naeng myeong and pick out the pieces of meat from the noodles - it's the least I can do, just once, for all the times you all have had to accommodate me. Really, it's cool. I just wanna hang out with you guys, same as you like hangin' with me."


Do you have to EAT meat or things cooked with meat to accommodate others?

I can't count the number of times I've gone to non-vegetarian friendly places just to hang out with friends. If there's really nothing vegetarian to eat, I just don't eat anything. I'll order a juice or something instead.

In fact, the latest time was just last week. There. Now you've heard of one person who's accommodating. But wait -- I'm still arrogant somehow, right? I mean, isn't that a prerequisite for being vegetarian?

I might not eat the roast beef/whatever at the thanksgiving table, but I will eat the numerous vegetarian side dishes and thank the cook for their hard work. I don't HAVE to eat a turkey to show that I appreciate someone's effort in cooking.

This is really getting silly, Bobster. I compromise, my friends compromise, everyone is happy. I don't prevent them from eating meat, and they don't force me to eat any.
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kermo



Joined: 01 Sep 2004
Location: Eating eggs, with a comb, out of a shoe.

PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 12:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

littlelisa wrote:
Quote:
See, now, all I can really report is what I've seen with my eyes, and I've ever seen this scenario occur, nor have I ever heard one of my veggie friends say, "Hey, let's go to that galbi place you guys like so much, and I'll have some naeng myeong and pick out the pieces of meat from the noodles - it's the least I can do, just once, for all the times you all have had to accommodate me. Really, it's cool. I just wanna hang out with you guys, same as you like hangin' with me."


Do you have to EAT meat or things cooked with meat to accommodate others?

I can't count the number of times I've gone to non-vegetarian friendly places just to hang out with friends. If there's really nothing vegetarian to eat, I just don't eat anything. I'll order a juice or something instead.

In fact, the latest time was just last week. There. Now you've heard of one person who's accommodating. But wait -- I'm still arrogant somehow, right? I mean, isn't that a prerequisite for being vegetarian?

I might not eat the roast beef/whatever at the thanksgiving table, but I will eat the numerous vegetarian side dishes and thank the cook for their hard work. I don't HAVE to eat a turkey to show that I appreciate someone's effort in cooking.

This is really getting silly, Bobster. I compromise, my friends compromise, everyone is happy. I don't prevent them from eating meat, and they don't force me to eat any.


Silence, you statistical anomaly!
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The Bobster



Joined: 15 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2008 10:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You guys're I really hung up on this word, arrogance, aren't you? One would almost think I hit a nerve or something ...

littlelisa wrote:
Quote:
See, now, all I can really report is what I've seen with my eyes, and I've ever seen this scenario occur, nor have I ever heard one of my veggie friends say, "Hey, let's go to that galbi place you guys like so much, and I'll have some naeng myeong and pick out the pieces of meat from the noodles - it's the least I can do, just once, for all the times you all have had to accommodate me. Really, it's cool. I just wanna hang out with you guys, same as you like hangin' with me."

Do you have to EAT meat or things cooked with meat to accommodate others?

Nope. Nothing I said above or what you quoted says or implies any such thing.

Quote:
I can't count the number of times I've gone to non-vegetarian friendly places just to hang out with friends. If there's really nothing vegetarian to eat, I just don't eat anything. I'll order a juice or something instead.

In fact, the latest time was just last week.

Did you suggest the place? No? Read again what you quoted.

I do have one vegetarian acquaintance, and he does suggest a favorite galbi place when we're out and about. How could he possibly have a favorite galbi place? It's well-ventilated, so he doesn't have to get the meat smell all over him, and when he takes his friends there, they tell him they like the way the pig tastes, and he knows just enough Korean to ask that they make him some chiggae without any meat, meat broth or seafood in it.

The restaurant's happy to accomodate him because he brings them fresh customers, many of whom return there even when he's not around. He's happy because he can hang out with his friends, who think he's really a pretty cool guy for a lot of reasons. His friends are happy because they got full bellies with delicious food. Everybody wins.

Problem is, I'm not sure I can use that guy as an example, but somebody's probably gonna come around and say, well, he's not REALLY a vegetarian. Me, all I can do is go by what people tell me and what I see them do, and I have to leave it to others to decide who's real and who isn't.

What's really silly, though? Someone who might try to assert that the guy I described is not in fact a very rare sort of vegetarian, the kind who cares as much about his firends' happiness as he does about his own politics.

By the way, kermo, do you have a favorite galbi place you'd like to invite me to try along with you?

Quote:
This is really getting silly, Bobster. I compromise, my friends compromise, everyone is happy. I don't prevent them from eating meat, and they don't force me to eat any.

Haha, what you call compromise is just what anyone would normally do, what most people usually do. And where did you get the idea someone would force you to eat meat?
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