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Tiger Beer
Joined: 07 Feb 2003
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 Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 6:54 pm Post subject: |
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I didnt realize that was happening in Denver. I've been there and the very small downtown looks cool, but looks like a haven for the homeless and quite dull after dark. It also doesn't take long to walk right from the nice downtown area into real sketchy areas real quickly.
What would be cool to have people realize that it IS better to live in more condensed walkable areas.
Latin American cities are the exact opposite of the United States. If you have any money at all, you are living right in the beautiful well-funded city areas with 1000s of things going on. If you don't have the money, you are living in the far-flung areas where you'll have to spend hours commuting to work. |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 6:56 pm Post subject: |
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If the US had more mass transportation would the US use more oil or less oil.
What is Ron Paul's opinion on government support for mass transportation? |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 7:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
If the US had more mass transportation would the US use more oil or less oil.
What is Ron Paul's opinion on government support for mass transportation? |
Probably that the federal government has no authority to tax for the purpose of mass transit. The state and municipal governments do.
What the heck does this have to do with Ron Paul? |
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blaseblasphemener
Joined: 01 Jun 2006
Location: There's a voice, keeps on calling me, down the road, that's where I'll always be
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| Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 7:52 pm Post subject: |
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| America's economy is built around the housing market. Get rid of that, and you don't have an economy. Catch-22. |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 7:59 pm Post subject: |
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| blaseblasphemener wrote: |
| America's economy is built around the housing market. Get rid of that, and you don't have an economy. Catch-22. |
Much of the GDP growth came from people selling each other houses at increasing prices, and that is gone. However, the United States is still the world's largest manufacturer. Silicon Valley, Boulder Co., NYC, Austin Tx and Boston still lead the whole world in tech innovation. DC and NYC are global powerhouses. Miami is the financial capital of Latin America and has among the highest hotel occupancy rates in the world. Houston and Dallas have been largely untouched in this slowdown and Texas as a whole is still adding jobs. The United States leads the world (by farrrrr) in medical innovation and research and medical related industries are likely to be the next .com and housing booms. The USA is also a breadbasket to the world and so on and on and on.
No need for hyperbole.
How does one "get rid of" a housing market? You mean destroying the homes? Or, do you think that this (very deep) housing recession is permanent? |
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wannago
Joined: 16 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 8:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Tiger Beer wrote: |
| I didnt realize that was happening in Denver. I've been there and the very small downtown looks cool, but looks like a haven for the homeless and quite dull after dark. It also doesn't take long to walk right from the nice downtown area into real sketchy areas real quickly. |
How long has it been since you've been to Denver? When they built Coors Field in Lower Downtown, that whole, old warehouse district got a much-needed facelift. Granted, there are a few spots where some homeless people hang (including near the capitol building itself) but downtown Denver has revitalized and is nowhere near the pit it was 20 years ago. In fact, Lower Downtown is one of "the" places to live...if you can afford it. |
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blaseblasphemener
Joined: 01 Jun 2006
Location: There's a voice, keeps on calling me, down the road, that's where I'll always be
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| Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 8:18 pm Post subject: |
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| mises wrote: |
| blaseblasphemener wrote: |
| America's economy is built around the housing market. Get rid of that, and you don't have an economy. Catch-22. |
Much of the GDP growth came from people selling each other houses at increasing prices, and that is gone. However, the United States is still the world's largest manufacturer. Silicon Valley, Boulder Co., NYC, Austin Tx and Boston still lead the whole world in tech innovation. DC and NYC are global powerhouses. Miami is the financial capital of Latin America and has among the highest hotel occupancy rates in the world. Houston and Dallas have been largely untouched in this slowdown and Texas as a whole is still adding jobs. The United States leads the world (by farrrrr) in medical innovation and research and medical related industries are likely to be the next .com and housing booms. The USA is also a breadbasket to the world and so on and on and on.
No need for hyperbole.
How does one "get rid of" a housing market? You mean destroying the homes? Or, do you think that this (very deep) housing recession is permanent? |
Naw, I mean if Americans suddenly started going away from living in houses, and opted instead for apartments. It would do wonders for gas consumption, but it would kill America as the biggest market in the world. Houses are the basis for the American economy, not the Industrial military complex, although that is plenty big enough too. |
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Pluto
Joined: 19 Dec 2006
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| Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 8:54 pm Post subject: |
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| blaseblasphemener wrote: |
| Naw, I mean if Americans suddenly started going away from living in houses, and opted instead for apartments. It would do wonders for gas consumption, but it would kill America as the biggest market in the world. Houses are the basis for the American economy, not the Industrial military complex, although that is plenty big enough too. |
I don't think it would be such a bad thing if people started living in apartments as markets would converge. In fact, the high gas prices are already starting to bring people closer to their places of work. As more and more people move closer together, markets will not only converge, but they will also expand. The best thing local governments can do for this trend is to loosen zoning restrictions.
As for government contractors, specifically with regards to the DoD, contracts are becoming more competitive. It may be a small trend but hopefully the DoD will use its powers of monopsony more and more. |
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bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 9:42 pm Post subject: |
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Here's an interesting website: Walkscore: Finding a great neighborhood
The neighborhood I grew up in: 8 (out of 100)
My last neighborhood in Oakland: 92
Ex-girlfriend's hood in Queens, NYC: 91
My present locale in SD: 69
I wouldn't say it isn't the perfect gauge. I'd take the neighborhood in Queens over mine in Oakland. And while there is plenty w/in a 15 minute walk of my apartment, it isn't very pleasant walking due to 4 lane roads with lots of traffic, large housing complexes, and hills. |
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bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 9:44 pm Post subject: |
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| blaseblasphemener wrote: |
| mises wrote: |
| blaseblasphemener wrote: |
| America's economy is built around the housing market. Get rid of that, and you don't have an economy. Catch-22. |
Much of the GDP growth came from people selling each other houses at increasing prices, and that is gone. However, the United States is still the world's largest manufacturer. Silicon Valley, Boulder Co., NYC, Austin Tx and Boston still lead the whole world in tech innovation. DC and NYC are global powerhouses. Miami is the financial capital of Latin America and has among the highest hotel occupancy rates in the world. Houston and Dallas have been largely untouched in this slowdown and Texas as a whole is still adding jobs. The United States leads the world (by farrrrr) in medical innovation and research and medical related industries are likely to be the next .com and housing booms. The USA is also a breadbasket to the world and so on and on and on.
No need for hyperbole.
How does one "get rid of" a housing market? You mean destroying the homes? Or, do you think that this (very deep) housing recession is permanent? |
Naw, I mean if Americans suddenly started going away from living in houses, and opted instead for apartments. It would do wonders for gas consumption, but it would kill America as the biggest market in the world. Houses are the basis for the American economy, not the Industrial military complex, although that is plenty big enough too. |
Well there would be more condos and flats too. Just look at Manhattan and other dense urban areas. Sure, there is a higher % of renters, but it isn't like there are no property owners beyond landlords in those areas. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 9:53 pm Post subject: |
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| blaseblasphemener wrote: |
Naw, I mean if Americans suddenly started going away from living in houses, and opted instead for apartments. It would do wonders for gas consumption, but it would kill America as the biggest market in the world. Houses are the basis for the American economy, not the Industrial military complex, although that is plenty big enough too. |
You're assuming that:
a) Americans would not spend / invest their money elsewhere
b) A revolution of apartment and condominium development could not spur economic growth on a comparable scale to the current housing market
c) A switch from the suburbs to urban areas would be sudden an unanimous
I think you're right to say that such a move would have incredible economic implications. But we will not know what they are. |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 9:55 pm Post subject: |
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| I fail to see how building proper cities would be an economic drain. |
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Tiger Beer
Joined: 07 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 1:10 am Post subject: |
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| bucheon bum wrote: |
Here's an interesting website: Walkscore: Finding a great neighborhood
The neighborhood I grew up in: 8 (out of 100)
My last neighborhood in Oakland: 92
Ex-girlfriend's hood in Queens, NYC: 91
My present locale in SD: 69
I wouldn't say it isn't the perfect gauge. I'd take the neighborhood in Queens over mine in Oakland. And while there is plenty w/in a 15 minute walk of my apartment, it isn't very pleasant walking due to 4 lane roads with lots of traffic, large housing complexes, and hills. |
My parents house scored a 26. Shocking, as I would have thought it would have been MUCH lower. Amazing they even have all the different businesses listed around it on that website. What they don't realize is that my parent's house is on a major local road that lacks a sidewalk. So you'd be walking next to some pretty scarey traffic on a narrow strip of gravel that is between the fast traffic and a ditch. Not the ideal stroll despite that there are things a couple miles walk down the road.
Nice website, I'll have to use that with Zillow and such. |
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sunhelen
Joined: 18 Sep 2007
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| Posted: Wed May 14, 2008 9:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Americans don't necessarily live in houses by choice. Well constructed apartments near public transport are often expensive. Cheaper apartments are often very poorly constructed and are far away from buses. The apartments that have been built near the already existing light rail lines in Denver are too expensive for most residents of the city. |
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bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Sun May 18, 2008 9:46 pm Post subject: |
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Paul Krugman wrote about this today in the NY Times
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Any serious reduction in American driving will require more than this � it will mean changing how and where many of us live.
To see what I�m talking about, consider where I am at the moment: in a pleasant, middle-class neighborhood consisting mainly of four- or five-story apartment buildings, with easy access to public transit and plenty of local shopping.
It�s the kind of neighborhood in which people don�t have to drive a lot, but it�s also a kind of neighborhood that barely exists in America, even in big metropolitan areas. Greater Atlanta has roughly the same population as Greater Berlin � but Berlin is a city of trains, buses and bikes, while Atlanta is a city of cars, cars and cars. |
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