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That/which usage

 
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Cornfed



Joined: 14 Mar 2008

PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 10:10 pm    Post subject: That/which usage Reply with quote

This is a question that has always baffled me. When do you use "which" and when do you use "that" to join clauses?
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KoreanAmbition



Joined: 03 Feb 2008

PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 11:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That which confuses you, might also confuse others. Smile
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nobbyken



Joined: 07 Jun 2006
Location: Yongin ^^

PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 11:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

From A-Z of English Grammar & Usage.

Relative clauses about things:
WHICH or THAT** links two separate ideas about the same thing or things.
We join these two ideas by using which or that instead of it or they.

E.g. I'm writing about a camera. It doesn't work.
I'm writing about a camera which doesn't work properly.
(main clause) ____________ (relative clause)

**We use that commonly instead of which, especially in <speech>.
But which is used in non-defining clauses(giving extra information that is not essential for what we are talking about).
E.g. I offered to let her stay at my house, which is about twenty minutes walk from the college.
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Dances With Wolves



Joined: 06 May 2008
Location: A galaxy far, far away!

PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 11:12 pm    Post subject: Re: That/which usage Reply with quote

Cornfed wrote:
This is a question that has always baffled me. When do you use "which" and when do you use "that" to join clauses?


You use "that" with restrictive clauses, and use "which" with non-restrictive clauses.
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nobbyken



Joined: 07 Jun 2006
Location: Yongin ^^

PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 11:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

KoreanAmbition wrote:
That which confuses you, might also confuse others. Smile

Which doctors?
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Thiuda



Joined: 14 Mar 2006
Location: Religion ist f�r Sklaven geschaffen, f�r Wesen ohne Geist.

PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 1:46 am    Post subject: Re: That/which usage Reply with quote

Cornfed wrote:
This is a question that has always baffled me. When do you use "which" and when do you use "that" to join clauses?


Wikipedia has an interesting article on English relative clauses, which deals with this topic.

Wikipedia wrote:
That and which

The distinction between the relative pronouns that and which, which are both used to introduce relative clauses with non-human antecedents, is a frequent point of dispute.

Of the two, only which is at all common in non-restrictive clauses. The dispute mainly concerns restrictive clauses: in normal speech and in British English that or which are both commonly used, but in formal American English it is generally recommended to use only that.
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Cornfed



Joined: 14 Mar 2008

PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 3:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for all that. It would appear to be as I thought - that there is no agreed-upon rule for using one or the other.
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kiwiduncan



Joined: 18 Jun 2007
Location: New Zealand

PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 3:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's an example I often give my students:

"Cars that cause pollution should be banned."

"Cars, which cause pollution, should be banned."

In the above sentences, the first speaker is defining a certain set of cars (the dirty ones), but does not believe all cars should be banned. The second speaker believes all cars should be banned.

"The magazine, which I bought yesterday, was very interesting." (I just bought one magazine)

"The magazine that I bought yesterday was very interesting." (but the magazine that I bought today was shite)
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