Korean Job Discussion Forums

[OnTheOtherSide]

Wassup homies.

So i've been here in Korea for a month teaching. Lots of my classes are great and the students and I will all have fun, while they learn.

A lot of my classes are just out of control though. The students just act like total brats. It's a total Dennis the Menace type of attitude where they just think it's cool to act like punks. It's almost like a big competition between them to see who can get away with what.

Spitting out the windows. Throwing things. Yelling. Talking loudly while i'm lecturing. Punching. Cussing at me in Korean. Refusing to cooperate at all with anything I say....... I've literally tried everything and in some classes I just can't stop it. From the moment I walk into the class there is too much momentum behind it. It's like a tornado that's already gone out of control.

I totally understand it, I did the same thing when I was a kid.

So it's gotten to the point where i've lost all hope in stopping it. Instead I just try to control it a little bit. There really is nothing within my power that I can possibly do to stop the madness. Some classes are just hopelessly out of control. Even the Korean teachers can't seem to contain the insanity in some classes from what i've seen.

I get the impression that at my school, they don't want the teachers to be very hard on the students. The other day I was yelling at some kids to go outside while holding the door open. The head teacher walked up, spoke with the kids in Korean and said to me "They don't want to go outside, how about just seperating them?"

In general, i've noticed a distinct lack of discipline for sure. There's a lot of just letting the kids go crazy, a lot of being really nice to them so that they'll keep coming back.

This hagwon is all about keeping enrollment up and money coming in. I get the feeling that the director doesn't care too much if I teach them well, but instead is all about money and making the kids happy, thus making their parents happy. Probably a common situation I suppose.

So my question is. What kind of discipline level should I be achieving? Is there a certain level of insanity that will always exist? Is it innevitable that some classes will go out of control and that's just how it is? What do you all think that the school wants me to do in this area?

I used to always worry that the director would look down upon my teaching ability if my clases were out of control. But lately i'm thinking that he doesn't care. I'll have classes go totally out of control and he'll peek at the scene through the window. Then after class it almost seems like he is apologetic to me for having to deal with all that bullh!t. Or he just understands that it is indeed extremely difficult to contain, especially for the foreign teacher, who commands much less respect. What do you all think?

I'm the only foreign teacher at my school so i'm sort of wandering in the dark. Feedback would be awesome. Are there some classes that can just never be brought under control?

I used to think that a worthy goal would be to totaly control my classes. I've seen lot's of ESL teachers on the internet brag aboutthe total control and discipline they maintain over all their classes. Now I am seeing that this is most likely totally impossible. In some classes, yes, in some classes, never gonna happen.

If the kids don't want to learn or cooperate at all, I can't really force them to.

Gracias Amigos

[Join Me]

The busier you can keep them and the more prepared you are the better you will be able to control them. Try to get them in a routine. One thing you can try is when they come in the room have them sit down and do a quick writing exercise to get them to settle down and reduce the talking. If someone wants to talk, call on them and get them up in front of the class to do a role play with a good kid. The busier you keep them the more interested they will be and the less time they will have to talk. Korean kids can focus on one task for no more than about 15 minutes tops. After that you will quickly notice they lose interest and start talking amongst themselves. Create a reward system and stick with it hard for a couple months. You will see improvement. Even when you get control of your classes continue the things you did to get them to that point. Or, your students will slip back into their old roles. Good luck.

[Oreovictim]

[blaseblasphemener]

Ontheotherside said:

[Scotticus]

[OnTheOtherSide]

[aka Dave]

It's up to you if you want to actually teach your children. If you're not in control of the classroom, learning will not occur. I've taught in very tough American high schools, where discipline was the name of the game.

You can have a "3 strikes and you're out policy" where if a student misbehaves 3 times you take him out of the class for 5 minutes. You mark the strikes on the board.

You can tell your boss that a student has misbehaved (give details) and *demand* a conference call with the mother (the mothers are the best source of discipline); emphasize the student is denying himself a chance to learn.

When you discipline try to be calm. I personally suck at discipline, my first 4 years of teaching were in graduate school at U.C. Santa Barbara teaching French. So I literally had NO discipline issues.

My mom was a principal for 35 years. She often told me to keep kids after class. If they're poor at English keep them after class, and speak with them with one of them with a Korean teacher to translate. Be calm and reasonable and firm.

Or. You could let the class go to hell and read Newsweek while you teach. If your boss doesn't care maybe that's what the kids deserve. Up to you, but if you don't have control of the class, the kids won't learn.

On edit: not all Americans are "punks". Some of us did quite well in school, so in terms of that, speak for yourself. You really, really don't sound like a professional.

[RedRob]

"The Honeymoon ain't gonna end people!"
Dude- Can I save this quote for about another 4-5 months and then remind you of it?

[OnTheOtherSide]

[peppermint]

Sometimes it's easier to reinforce good behaviour than discourage bad. Make a show of bringing a big bag of candy to class, and be generous in rewarding the good kids. The troublemakers will fall in line before too long.

[OnTheOtherSide]

[bogey666]

I think you're kind of fucked in a hagwon when it comes to "discipline".

it's essentially a business, and one needs to keep Little Johnny/Jane Korea happy, and their mommies happy.

I also suspect since they can't get away with a lot of this shit during their regular school, they take it out on you at the hagwon.

I also have classes of full of Dennis the Menaces in Romulan and Vulcan haircuts, but they would never dare cuss at me (if my Korean teacher told me, they'd be dead meat) . It's a public school and their ass is mine if I want a piece of it (no need for that though, I can scare the shit out them)

Here is what I have found thus far... generally speaking there is a group of "leaders" who make the most trouble... they also generally like to hang /sit together. Identify the leaders, and crack down on their asses, make an example out of them.

My favorite trick thus far has been putting them in the corner of the room and they have to face the wall. Every time they try to turn around, I yell at them to turn back around. They hate this ...(which is precisely why I do it) if they stick act up, they have to hold their arms in the air... or even kneel (still facing the wall).

don't know what kind of latitude if any you have at a hagwon (like I said.. I'm in a PS) but try to figure what you can do and see if you can make an example of the biggest troublemakers.

p.s. candy reward system works, use it.

pps I was also interested in the avatar but was told the person behind the avatar is nothing like her

p.p.s.s. - you were a fuckup in elementary school? my parents would have beaten my ass RAW had they received one complaint from any of my teachers. In fact, they used to flat out encourage and tell my American teachers in parent teacher conferences to hit me and give me extra homework (we came from the Old country). I'm sure these teachers thought my Old World parents were fucking nuts

p.s. and try scaring the shit out of them (physical intimidation, if you can)

[ryouga013]

[Spliff's Son]

[kingplaya4]

When I attended school in the US in the eighties and nineties this was not acceptable behavior. I can think of a couple students who behaved this way maybe monthly, but they were dealt with ie principal's office, suspension etc. Definitely not normal behavior for sure.

If the hagwon isn't going to back you, you're basically sol, but I would have a few talks with the director before I resigned myself to having to deal with a bunch of brats everyday. What's going to happen is the good kids will leave because they aren't learning anything, and only the brats will stay. Not a great situation, and hardly fulfilling. Hey I'd be lying if I said I spent much time out of school worrying about how to teach my students better, but I don't want to feel like I'm just going through the motions waiting for the bell to ring.

Preparing your lessons will help, I would make up some worksheets and think up some activities, and then reward them with five or ten minutes of game time at the end if they behave. (Of course you can't expect them to be perfect but as long as things are improving I'd reward them.) Kids have a great sense of whether you're confident or not. So if you tell a kid to leave the room and you're not sure he's going to go or not, then forget it, he's not moving. Of course it will be hard to have a confident attitude if the director will contradict you, but if you can somehow get at least minimal backup, then the kids will eventually learn that its' just a waste of time to protest.