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EU's main weakness exposed
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pkang0202



Joined: 09 Mar 2007

PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 6:33 pm    Post subject: EU's main weakness exposed Reply with quote

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7482197.stm

Quote:
But the BBC's Hugh Schofield in Paris says last month's Irish rejection of the treaty means once again it is the EU's institutional shape - rather than anything it can actually do - that is in the spotlight.

Speaking on France 3, Mr Sarkozy said: "Something isn't right. Something isn't right at all."


If it were a 2/3rd or 3/4ths majority then the EU can be more effective. As it stands now, if a single country objects, your SOL.
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Ya-ta Boy



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994

PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 10:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jefferson Davis, a man with extensive experience in a similar situation where the local governments held onto almost all the power said that if the Confederacy died, they should carve on the tombstone: "Died of a theory".
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Jandar



Joined: 11 Jun 2008

PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 11:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

European Union is a misnomer.

It should be European Confederacy.

Where each member state has the right to veto.

Even the strength of the US Constitution was not enough to hold the Union together, the concept of states rights is still an issue to this day, even though there was war that was supposed to have settled that.
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blade



Joined: 30 Jun 2007

PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 11:18 pm    Post subject: Re: EU's main weakness exposed Reply with quote

pkang0202 wrote:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7482197.stm

Quote:
But the BBC's Hugh Schofield in Paris says last month's Irish rejection of the treaty means once again it is the EU's institutional shape - rather than anything it can actually do - that is in the spotlight.

Speaking on France 3, Mr Sarkozy said: "Something isn't right. Something isn't right at all."


If it were a 2/3rd or 3/4ths majority then the EU can be more effective. As it stands now, if a single country objects, your SOL.

Ireland was the country to actually have a vote on the matter, until a majority of European citizens actually get to vote on this issue the idea that Ireland is somehow standing in the way of the European majority is absolutely wrong.
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Jandar



Joined: 11 Jun 2008

PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 11:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No actually you are wrong.
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[email protected]



Joined: 25 Feb 2008

PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 11:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The treaty would have been shot down in most countries*. Eurocrats need to realise that people dont want further political integration. Europe is far too diverse with too many local stakeholders for something like the constitution or Lisbon treaty to work. Politics should be inherently local, not in some shady bureaucracy with bad accounting like the EU.

As an Irish person (I wasnt at home to vote), I would have been a naysayer too. Im more Interested in getting Irish politicians to do their bloody job for Irish people, rather then let them happily abdicate more power to Brussels. The European diplomatic corps particularly stank. Common EU foreign policy???? No thanks

* edit: If put to plebiscite
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bigverne



Joined: 12 May 2004

PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 12:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Ireland was the country to actually have a vote on the matter, until a majority of European citizens actually get to vote on this issue the idea that Ireland is somehow standing in the way of the European majority is absolutely wrong.


The French and the Dutch already voted down the Constitution (almost word for word the same as this cleverly constructed 'treaty) and it would almost certainly be rejected in the UK (we were promised a vote but are not getting one) as well as many other European nations. Of course, the people will not be allowed to vote on this.

The EU has gone too far. Such a diverse set of nations, with differing languages, cultures, legal systems and priorities cannot be molded into a single political entity.
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Ya-ta Boy



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994

PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 12:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Such a diverse set of nations, with differing languages, cultures, legal systems and priorities cannot be molded into a single political entity.


The Romans might have disagreed with you on that.
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[email protected]



Joined: 25 Feb 2008

PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 12:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Laughing I personally think that Lisbon/The Eu constituation would be a document Napoleon himself would be proud of
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blade



Joined: 30 Jun 2007

PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 1:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bigverne wrote:
Quote:
Ireland was the country to actually have a vote on the matter, until a majority of European citizens actually get to vote on this issue the idea that Ireland is somehow standing in the way of the European majority is absolutely wrong.


The French and the Dutch already voted down the Constitution (almost word for word the same as this cleverly constructed 'treaty) and it would almost certainly be rejected in the UK (we were promised a vote but are not getting one) as well as many other European nations. Of course, the people will not be allowed to vote on this.

The EU has gone too far. Such a diverse set of nations, with differing languages, cultures, legal systems and priorities cannot be molded into a single political entity.

I have no problem with further integration but I don't think EU citizens should be expected to accept a treaty that (a) nobody understands and (b) is not much different to what they already rejected in 2005.
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jvalmer



Joined: 06 Jun 2003

PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 2:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've always thought that the EU was formed just to rival the US in population and power. Something only the rich favor. I've talked to a few Euros, and most don't like most policies of the EU. Although, they like the free movement of labour part, only if they're the ones allowed to move around and not people from poorer regions going into their countries. Kind of a rich country's "greedy" version of free movement.
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Leslie Cheswyck



Joined: 31 May 2003
Location: University of Western Chile

PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 2:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ya-ta Boy wrote:
Quote:
Such a diverse set of nations, with differing languages, cultures, legal systems and priorities cannot be molded into a single political entity.


The Romans might have disagreed with you on that.


Rome's problems were legion.
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Tjames426



Joined: 06 Aug 2006

PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 2:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ya-ta Boy wrote:
Quote:
Such a diverse set of nations, with differing languages, cultures, legal systems and priorities cannot be molded into a single political entity.


The Romans might have disagreed with you on that.


China and Russia might have disagreed with you on that, too
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Ya-ta Boy



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994

PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 3:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
China and Russia might have disagreed with you on that, too



We could also mention the US, Canada, Australia these days, South Africa...but we probably shouldn't muddy the waters. Some people don't deal well with complexity.
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Zenas



Joined: 17 May 2008

PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 3:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Politics should be inherently local, not in some shady bureaucracy with bad accounting like the EU.


Absolutely. Why would an Englishman or a Scot or the Irish want to be told how to think, what to say and how to act by some technobureaucrat in Brussels. Americans are suffering now for letting the federal behemoth get out of control.

When Sarkozy says something is wrong, it just means things are not going the way him and Group A want them to go.

One point for us.
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