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TECO
Joined: 20 Jan 2003
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 Posted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 2:15 am Post subject: |
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| judo / ju jitsu comment is surprising since judo flows from ju jitsu and they appear similar. Also, whether you're training in daitoryu or bjj, the principles are much the same. I like a lot of the choking techniques in ju jitsu. judo seems boring now compared to ju jitsu. |
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xingyiman
Joined: 12 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 6:19 am Post subject: |
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| Allen wrote: |
You show very little understanding of BJJ techniques. Was your training done by DVD or a book?
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Sorry to dissappoint you. I never ceases to amaze me as how some BJJ afficiandos always seem to be able to decipher a person's skill by a few misconstrued sentences on a forum. I trained in the real deal Ralph.
And let me put it to you this way. BJJ and Judo are markedly similar and thats because most BJJ techinques were drawn from Judo, not Jiu Jitsu.
The difference is that the primary assualt weapon for the Judoka is in fact the throw itself, something that BJJ is most defecient in. It's amazing the damage a person can inflict by ramming an opponent into the pavement with the full force of a throw. Yes I know that goes against proper Judo etiquette but it is effective nontheless. I trained in BJJ for three years, yes I've watched a few VCR tapes(the Gracies hadn't got them out on DVD at the time I was training) but 99% of my training was under a certified instructor. I have rolled with Judoka and BJJers alike and I am well aware of the limitations of each, I would take a guess moreso than yourself. BJJ definitely has utility but it being a have all end all - can beat any other martial artist with only 6 weeks of training is about as out of date as UFC 2.
BJJ is evolving and I have not been active in it for a few years now but I'm sure the core principles remain the same. I have trained in Mauy Thai (Bangkok) Takgeyon, Judo, Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, Shaolin Kung fu, and Boxing. Of all my training I would still rate the BJJ as the least effective in a real life combat situation. Mostly this is based on the fact that I have been in real life combat situations, not an armchair quarterback. Where it has great utility is in controlling opponents for example - police training(which of course you've got a gun and a handy club and raido to call for backup).
As a recipient of some of the less courteous behaviors exhibited by us humans, I can honestly tell you that "glory fighting" is suicide. If a real life situation happens you will be lucky to get in a good shot or two, which might give you enough time to high tail it out of there before cops or the thug's backup shows up. In any case it'll be doubtful that you'll be flexing your biceps, and bragging about your great BJJ technique afterward.
Of course I am used to all the BS and machismo that goes along with the aura, after all I was one of you at one point.
Alas if you're really in need of something to prove just go down to Itaewon and pick a fight with a few drunk soldiers. If you indeed come out smelling like a rose and leaving a pile of bodies in your wake then I want you to teach me your style Homer!
But what do I know, I've only been trading punches, kicks, and wrestling since I was 8. |
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xingyiman
Joined: 12 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 6:39 am Post subject: |
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| TECO wrote: |
| judo / ju jitsu comment is surprising since judo flows from ju jitsu and they appear similar. Also, whether you're training in daitoryu or bjj, the principles are much the same. I like a lot of the choking techniques in ju jitsu. judo seems boring now compared to ju jitsu. |
Well BJJ is a good MA for those with attention deficit disorder. Things move quickly and there's lots of variety.
Your observation about Judo vs BJJ is representative of lower level technique (brown belt to 1st Dan). Roll with a 5th Dan or above and you'll notice the difference.
I would sum up the difference like this:
(Street/bar fight)
lower or middle level BJJ guy vs complete skilless moron - complete cleanup.
Same BJJ guy against a guy with some HS or college wrestling - 50/50 depending on who was the best fighter as well as age, stamina etc......
High level BJJ and Judo will be relatively indistinguishable (but then again how many studly jockos on this thread are that?  )
Lower/middle level judo in my experience is more applicable to what you would encounter for real and BJJ is more of what you would encounter
an MMA match. Maybe I just had a real kick arse Judo teacher but thats how I call it.
Last edited by xingyiman on Thu Aug 14, 2008 6:48 am; edited 1 time in total |
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stevieg4ever
Joined: 11 Feb 2006
Location: London, England
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| Posted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 6:40 am Post subject: |
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I personally love Taekwondo but I can understand its limitations. Other martial artists say it is very fancy but not practical. A lot of the techniques work when the opponent is at a distance from you but are useless if they are up close.
Compared to various styles of Kung-Fu it is impractical. The limitation of hand techniques is also a common criticism. That said... if you are good enough you can make it work for sure.
Every style has its limitations and corresponding rhetoric. Also there is a lot of emphasis on the MMA these days. |
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Allen
Joined: 19 Feb 2007
Location: Gunpo
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| Posted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 7:00 am Post subject: |
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Wow Xingyiman. Such a chip on your shoulder.
You trained in the "real deal" did you? But it has been a few years.
You have been fighting since you were 8? That does not say much. I can make those claims as well, but that is just stupid, since they can't be proven.
Yes Judo and BJJ come from are literally the same art, but BJJ focuses more on Ne-Waza.
Oh since you listed your resume, here is mine.
Full Contact Karate, Judo, BJJ, JKDC, Kali, Boxing, Shaolin KungFu/Chinese Kempo [including much full contact] (Sifu rank), TKD, American Kenpo, and Silat. I have trained with world champions and professional fighters.
Currently I train BJJ and Judo and most of the difference in the are how they are set up and the postion of the thrower at the end. |
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Allen
Joined: 19 Feb 2007
Location: Gunpo
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| Posted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 7:04 am Post subject: |
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I would like to see TKD make a change for the better. It was the first art Istudied, but it has fallen far. To make it legit they should adopt some rules for Kyukushin or its offshoots or adopt the rules of K1 style.
| stevieg4ever wrote: |
I personally love Taekwondo but I can understand its limitations. Other martial artists say it is very fancy but not practical. A lot of the techniques work when the opponent is at a distance from you but are useless if they are up close.
Compared to various styles of Kung-Fu it is impractical. The limitation of hand techniques is also a common criticism. That said... if you are good enough you can make it work for sure.
Every style has its limitations and corresponding rhetoric. Also there is a lot of emphasis on the MMA these days. |
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xingyiman
Joined: 12 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 7:06 am Post subject: |
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| Bryan wrote: |
| xingyiman wrote: |
| . BJJ is great in controlled situations but there's no feasible reality in you and an opponent bantering in the gaurd for 10 minutes in a real life scenario. |
Interesting. I just got back from no-gi an hour ago and I don't think I spent a period of longer than 30 seconds on my back in guard without changing positions. I think I spent most of the time on two feet, working for a takedown.
Some people develop a style in BJJ that is somewhat bad for MMA and the street--they pull guard, and then work from guard the whole time. That's all up to them, if they want to train that way. It helps win BJJ competitions sometimes, so it's all good if that's their goal. Some people don't care about competing in MMA and that's perfectly fine. My style is more of going for the takedown then top game, which seems to be better for MMA. But there are guys that are great from the bottom in MMA too (Mir did well against Lesnar).
On getting in real life fights, my opinion about that is that's for losers. I've never got into a fight and never will. |
I used to be a big fan of working from the top until my instructor showed me how easy it is to do a reversal (Something the Gracies' early opponents never seemed to catch onto). After that I got really paranoid and confined my grappling to the fun fighting in the school and began working on brute force power in striking. You gotta know how to handle yourself on the ground if you end up there.
The truth of the matter is that BJJ like just about any other martial art is what you make it. What is annoying are the types of bozo's who train for MMA and use the gaurd as their primary weapon and then are insistant that it translates seamlessly into street application and thats laughable to any experienced fighter unless of course you have a Mcdojo and are looking to recruit some 13 year old wannabes. |
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xingyiman
Joined: 12 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 7:23 am Post subject: |
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| Allen wrote: |
Wow Xingyiman. Such a chip on your shoulder.
Oh since you listed your resume, here is mine.
Full Contact Karate, Judo, BJJ, JKDC, Kali, Boxing, Shaolin KungFu/Chinese Kempo [including much full contact] (Sifu rank), TKD, American Kenpo, and Silat. I have trained with world champions and professional fighters.
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Yawn.......never had much time for book studies or anything else for that matter with that kind of schedule. I'm always suspicious of anyone claiming the do the whole JKD Kali thing, unless of course your instructor was Dan Inosanto. Met lots of em over the years. A word...quality not quantity my good man.
| Allen wrote: |
| Currently I train BJJ and Judo and most of the difference in the are how they are set up and the postion of the thrower at the end. |
That depends entirely upon who your instructor is and who trained him/her and where. Some Judo masters concentrate on thows and really don't lend | | |
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