Korean Job Discussion Forums

[tsmith62]

Hi,

I was asked recently why in English we cannot use the present perfect tense with the word when. It's one of those cases where I instinctively know something isn't right, but I can't explain why. Does anyone know why the present perfect and "when" can't mix?

For example, we say:

"When did he see the car?"

but not

"When had he seen the car?"

Is there a grammatical explanation to this or is this a part of English that has evolved over time and doesn't have a cut and dried answer?

Many thanks!

[WillieMink]

First of all, the second example is past perfect and not present perfect.

For example:

"I have been to Tokyo." Present Perfect
"The door had been left open." Past Perfect

Secondly, I don't that there is anything grammatically incorrect with using "when + present/past perfect".

For example:

"When he had seen that there were no more cookies, he quickly left for the cookie store."

[lifeinkorea]

That just avoids the OP's question. I think they meant to give a present perfect example but couldn't.

"When he had seen" OK
"When he has seen" ???

"When" would be used for an event in the past or talking about a routine. Present perfect would be used to talk about an event which did not finish yet but did start in the past.

[yawarakaijin]

I'll believe you when you have shown me proof.

I'll believe you when you show me proof.

Getting a little sneaky in using the present perfect for an event that may take place in the FUTURE, but it is possible. While the latter does seem a little more natural the former wouldn't jump out as incorrect to me.

[some waygug-in]

You can use it with "when" but the meaning will not refer to a past event.


I've been to Japan many times. - past event - I can talk about it now.

When I've been to Japan many times, I'll be able to talk about it.

So as other posters have said, if you add "when", it refers to something which is not yet completed and thus a future event.

[WillieMink]

Sorry, I meant to give a present perfect as well.

lifeinkorea:

"When he has seen" ???

"When he has seen the mess he will surely be upset."

Yes, you could use the present as well:

"When he sees the mess he will surely be upset."

However, as has been shown by other posters, the former is also correct and has a slightly different mood/tone, as it puts an emphasis on "the mess".

[lifeinkorea]

[WillieMink]

Well, I'm glad you have your distinct way of conversing, but one of the beautiful things about the English language is that there are many different ways of expressing the same thought.

For the purpose of this thread, I'm just showing that using "when + the present perfect" can be grammatically correct.

Sorry if it sounds funny to you.

[lifeinkorea]

[WillieMink]

fa⋅ce⋅tious
�adjective
1. not meant to be taken seriously or literally: a facetious remark.