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bassexpander
Joined: 13 Sep 2007
Location: Someplace you'd rather be.
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 Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 7:05 pm Post subject: Why some of them hate English teachers |
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Jealousy.
Here:
http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/biz/2009/06/123_46598.html
.... although I agree with comments that the debt load they are mentioning isn't that high. The problem is the clash within Korean society which dictates you should have XXXXXX million won before you even consider marrying. Even if that's 10 years down the road for these guys, they still need a job to afford the lifestyle their friends are enjoying.
Also, housing costs are insane. Imagine the giant mountain in front of the average Korean young person if they don't have parents rich enough to help them purchase a new home for marriage (or even part of it) because they are also in debt? At the same time, they know they will have to provide for said parents down the road.
This seems to breed a lot of jealousy, hatred, and resentment of English teachers -- especially when the news media feeds these kids with story after negative story about us. We're depicted as rich playboys who only work here because we speak English (something they have to work very hard at to learn).
I don't encounter the negative anti-western Koreans much. Most of what I see comes from the media and netizens. It's out there, though, and it's all about jealousy. |
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some waygug-in
Joined: 25 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 7:27 pm Post subject: |
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I don't know if anyone thinks I'm a "rich playboy" by any means, but I have met quite a few angry Koreans.
From what I've been able to gather, they seem most upset at HAVING TO learn English while many so called teachers show no interest in learning Korean.
I've found that showing them that I am trying to learn their language does help me get past a lot of negativity.
I don't pretend that it will solve all problems, but it does help.
All those fierce stares from adjossis seem to melt with a slight nod from me and an "anyong ha shim ni kka". |
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oldfatfarang
Joined: 19 May 2005
Location: On the road to somewhere.
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| Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 8:05 pm Post subject: |
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Welcome to the real world Korea. You study - and you pay. I wish my daughter had only a $4,800 debt. That's laughable. I'm sure there are other 'playboy' teachers on here who agree with me.
Heck. I started working part-time at 14 - and full-time at 15. I paid for my college education later (as an adult). Not an unusual story in a western country where parents do not fund their kids higher education.
And, perhaps if Korean students stopped playing around in their English classes - they could go abroad to get employment. My daughter moves to another country every uni. vacation to get work (to pay for her studies).
And young people face insurmountable debt to become home owners in every country I've lived and worked in - what's new about this?
Young couples have to work - save - then buy.
Just a bunch of spoilt cry-babies. |
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polonius
Joined: 05 Jun 2004
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| Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 8:07 pm Post subject: |
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Heavy debt, HAHAHA
This from Canada
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| Preliminary data from the 2007-08 NPSAS suggests that the average amount of debt among undergraduate seniors at 4-year institutions has increased to about $22,500. |
Are some Koreans jealous about the average ESL teacher earning 2.2~2.4 mil per month? Perhaps, but I don't think it is that high of a percentage.
The Korean Media is the source for many evils in this country, i.e. anywhere from: all foreigners are drug users. (Just went through this battle myself) to reporting fan death victims. And sadly, many Koreans buy into it.
If you are to say that the average Korean dislikes foreigners, I would stipulate that the main reason for the dislike is that we are different, not that they are jealous. People don't like what they don't know. |
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Fishead soup
Joined: 24 Jun 2007
Location: Korea
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| Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 8:08 pm Post subject: |
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| I seriously don't know why they put up with those overpriced tacky Wedding hall deals. |
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ekul
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
Location: [Mod Edit]
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| Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 8:24 pm Post subject: |
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For such a small amount of loan you could work a part time job while job seeking and pay most of it off. I worked for 3 months with 50-60hour weeks in minimum wage jobs trying to get enough money to set up in Japan after graduating. Luckily I found out about Korea  |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 9:09 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah there is def. hardcore jealousy here. For starters the average English teacher's pay is above their Korean colleagues at a Public School. Throw in the free rent and 'Welcome to Korea' shopping spree that comes along with it and then you see the super jealousy. Now add the (authentic) Tommy Hilfiger or Calvin Klein T-shirt that to you is nothing, but to them is W70,000 and you get more jealousy. Add in the drunken sailor lifestyle and spending habits, and you get more envy. Plus, many people here aren't certified teachers or have degrees in English/Education- and there is a big source of the poor professional image/reaction we sometimes get. Unfair yes, but understandable.
People aren't perfect, and I don't expect them to be. I am not perfect. Of course many people on this board seem to expect perfection out of Korea and every Korean person.
| Quote: |
| And, perhaps if Korean students stopped playing around in their English classes - they could go abroad to get employment. My daughter moves to another country every uni. vacation to get work (to pay for her studies). |
Dude that is such silliness. The barriers people face to international employment and travel are so much more complex than that. Plus, not EVERYONE can go to college and travel in this country. The University system in America is totally different than in Korea. You can go college in America with a HS degree and money. You can't do that in Korea. There are a select number of spots. There is no University of Phoenix here.
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| Heck. I started working part-time at 14 - and full-time at 15. I paid for my college education later (as an adult). Not an unusual story in a western country where parents do not fund their kids higher education. |
Well if you are old, then college didn't cost near the same when you went to school as it does now. What were your tuition bills? Probably not 25,000 a semester. As for 'Western Parents don't Fund their kids education" That's a joke. You are just being prejudiced and narrow-minded. Of course plenty of parents in America pay for their kids' college. Mine did.
As for prejudice, What is happening here is similar to the "They Took Our Jobs" anti-immigration wave in America, and the outrage at corporate outsourcing. Not to mention the growing culture gap between the working class and college graduates in America. And yes, American students are griping about the large amount of debt they face as well.
Welcome to the Real World Everybody.
Maybe it is time to rethink the University System. Personally I think it's garbage, but that's another topic... |
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polonius
Joined: 05 Jun 2004
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| Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 9:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
| Yeah there is def. hardcore jealousy here. For starters the average English teacher's pay is above their Korean colleagues at a Public School. Throw in the free rent and 'Welcome to Korea' shopping spree that comes along with it and then you see the super jealousy. Now add the (authentic) Tommy Hilfiger or Calvin Klein T-shirt that to you is nothing, but to them is W70,000 and you get more jealousy. Add in the drunken sailor lifestyle and spending habits, and you get more envy. Plus, many people here aren't certified teachers or have degrees in English/Education- and there is a big source of the poor professional image/reaction we sometimes get. Unfair yes, but understandable. |
Maybe Real Reality will pop in and show you some stats, but from what I read, the Korean teachers earn more at a public school than the Foreign Co-Teacher.
| Steelrails wrote: |
| People aren't perfect, and I don't expect them to be. I am not perfect. Of course many people on this board seem to expect perfection out of Korea and every Korean person. |
I used to be conceited, but now I am absolutely perfect.  I had this sticker posted on my bedroom door while going through my teens. Mom wasn't too happy with it.
| Quote: |
| Heck. I started working part-time at 14 - and full-time at 15. I paid for my college education later (as an adult). Not an unusual story in a western country where parents do not fund their kids higher education. |
| Steelrails wrote: |
| Well if you are old, then college didn't cost near the same when you went to school as it does now. What were your tuition bills? Probably not 25,000 a semester. As for 'Western Parents don't Fund their kids education" That's a joke. You are just being prejudiced and narrow-minded. Of course plenty of parents in America pay for their kids' college. Mine did. |
I have to agree in some respects here. Tuition has skyrocketed over the years. I am sure as well, that plenty of parents do pay for tuition, but if you look at the average debt that a university student incurs, you will see that it is quite high. That takes into account the students whose parents paid for University. |
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Otherside
Joined: 06 Sep 2007
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| Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 10:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
Dude that is such silliness. The barriers people face to international employment and travel are so much more complex than that. Plus, not EVERYONE can go to college and travel in this country. The University system in America is totally different than in Korea. You can go college in America with a HS degree and money. You can't do that in Korea. There are a select number of spots. There is no University of Phoenix here.
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Umm, an HS diploma and money is pretty much all you need to go to University here. Granted, there are a limited number of spots at the TOP universities (like everywhere else), but there are plenty of mid and low-tier Universities in Korea. I heard that almost 70% of Koreans have some type of Tertiary education (granted, I can't verify this with a source, but I've heard it many times from Koreans). There are 14 Universities and 2 colleges in the city of Suwon, which is the 8th biggest city in korea and has a population of 1 million. That is a better average than most of the West that's for sure, and it's not just limited to one city, there are Universities EVERYWHERE in Korea...as the amount of crap rural University postings on the Jobs board will show  |
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Xuanzang
Joined: 10 Apr 2007
Location: Sadang
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| Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 10:15 pm Post subject: |
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| At the beginning we might earn more but in the long term. Our salaries stagnant and theirs goes up with performance, holiday bonuses, etc. We're not taking their jobs either. We were brought here because their methods never worked. They could expel us and go back to the Dark Ages of English education. Anti-teacher's coalition would love that. |
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oldfatfarang
Joined: 19 May 2005
Location: On the road to somewhere.
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| Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 10:54 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="Steelrails"]
| Quote: |
| OLDFATFARANG And, perhaps if Korean students stopped playing around in their English classes - they could go abroad to get employment. My daughter moves to another country every uni. vacation to get work (to pay for her studies). |
Dude that is such silliness. The barriers people face to international employment and travel are so much more complex than that. Plus, not EVERYONE can go to college and travel in this country. The University system in America is totally different than in Korea. You can go college in America with a HS degree and money. You can't do that in Korea. There are a select number of spots. There is no University of Phoenix here.
OLDFATFARANG
I should add that I'm not American. I should also say that the very first Korean I ever met - was working alongside me picking vegetables in Australia. Contract work - in near 40 deg heat. She was living on potatoes - and the other vegetables I gave her from the farm I was working on. She was working illegally on a tourist visa (like all the other motivated Koreans I met working on Aussie farms), so she could save enough money to go to college in the USA.
| Quote: |
| OLDFATFARANG Heck. I started working part-time at 14 - and full-time at 15. I paid for my college education later (as an adult). Not an unusual story in a western country where parents do not fund their kids higher education. |
Well if you are old, then college didn't cost near the same when you went to school as it does now. What were your tuition bills? Probably not 25,000 a semester. As for 'Western Parents don't Fund their kids education" That's a joke. You are just being prejudiced and narrow-minded. Of course plenty of parents in America pay for their kids' college. Mine did.
OLDFATFARANG
I'm not being prejudiced and narrow minded. You're assuming that every poster here is American. Many university students in my country can only attend university when they're adults. You've obviously had a very lucky (and sheltered) life, if your parents paid for your education. That's not the norm where I come from. You either take a student loan and study when you're young - or, you work, save, and then study when you can pay for it (although the govt. sometimes gives small financial incentives to adult students).
While $25,000 tuition fees p.a. might sound like a lot of money to someone fresh out of college (paid for by their parents), I can assure you that amount palls in relation to the lost income opportunities adult students take when they study. Try losing $20-30,000 a year in income while you're still raising a young family. Now that's expensive. This may seem off-topic, but it's not. I'm trying to show that college education has always been expensive - and in the real world, you have to work, save, and pay for it.
Incidentally, that's why many posters are here in Korea - paying off education debt, and, also, why I met educated Koreans working in manual labor in Australia - they were working to pay for their education.
I still think this article is a joke. Spoilt, whining babies. Get on with it.
quote] |
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Tobias
Joined: 02 Jun 2008
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| Posted: Thu Jun 11, 2009 12:39 am Post subject: Re: Why some of them hate English teachers |
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| bassexpander wrote: |
...This seems to breed a lot of jealousy, hatred, and resentment of English teachers -- especially when the news media feeds these kids with story after negative story about us. We're depicted as rich playboys who only work here because we speak English (something they have to work very hard at to learn).
I don't encounter the negative anti-western Koreans much. Most of what I see comes from the media and netizens. It's out there, though, and it's all about jealousy. |
The wheels of capitalism are greased by jealousy. Think of all the useless bullshit young people (at least those with prerequisite disposable income) spend their money on just to win approval from others.
English is something they work hard to learn? Where are these students? I'd dig having some hard-working learners for a change. |
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Ukon
Joined: 29 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Thu Jun 11, 2009 1:15 am Post subject: |
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I asked some koreans about this....
For starters, none of them mentioned that jealousy stuff....although I'm sure some do wish they made the same amount of money.
Instead, they all said it had to do with the low standard of hagwon teachers....also, they were pissed the majority of them didn't express any interest in the culture or learning the language outside of banging K-girls. Basically, they know getting a hagwon job is easy and don't really respect them for working there....they do seem to respect other english jobs more(PS, Univ, well respected hagwon). Since Hagwon jobs are pretty low on the totem pole, they do wonder why some older teachers would take them.
They'll give me or my friends who learn korean discounts, free deals, meals, etc.....but for joe blow hagwon teacher with a backpack on 24/7, who can't count to ten in korean, and walks around exclusively with the same 2-4 foreigners everywhere? Pfftt....
Hagwons have a shady rep as a whole...naturally, the mercenaries working(korean or foreigner) for Mr. Kim's edu-money maker are not held in high regard.... Do people respect Car Salesmen? Only if you sell Porches and Ferraris....otherwise, it doesn't matter how much your pulling in....your always gonna be that guy who "you haggle with when you wanna buy a car". |
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Xuanzang
Joined: 10 Apr 2007
Location: Sadang
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| Posted: Thu Jun 11, 2009 1:46 am Post subject: |
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| Ukon wrote: |
I asked some koreans about this....
For starters, none of them mentioned that jealousy stuff....although I'm sure some do wish they made the same amount of money.
Instead, they all said it had to do with the low standard of hagwon teachers....also, they were pissed the majority of them didn't express any interest in the culture or learning the language outside of banging K-girls. Basically, they know getting a hagwon job is easy and don't really respect them for working there....they do seem to respect other english jobs more(PS, Univ, well respected hagwon). Since Hagwon jobs are pretty low on the totem pole, they do wonder why some older teachers would take them.
They'll give me or my friends who learn korean discounts, free deals, meals, etc.....but for joe blow hagwon teacher with a backpack on 24/7, who can't count to ten in korean, and walks around exclusively with the same 2-4 foreigners everywhere? Pfftt....
Hagwons have a shady rep as a whole...naturally, the mercenaries working(korean or foreigner) for Mr. Kim's edu-money maker are not held in high regard.... Do people respect Car Salesmen? Only if you sell Porches and Ferraris....otherwise, it doesn't matter how much your pulling in....your always gonna be that guy who "you haggle with when you wanna buy a car". |
Mercenaries are in all walks of English education here in Korea. You think all PS teachers are in it for the love of the public school game? Your friends sound elitist and stuck up. You and them turning your nose up at hagwon teachers. Many decent people go and work at hagwons. Many of us started out at a franchise or mom and pop hagwon when we first got here. It might be for profit but aren`t most things in Korea...
Oh and judging from my district workshop. Backpacks are in style with more than just hagwon teachers. |
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The Gipkik
Joined: 30 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Thu Jun 11, 2009 2:02 am Post subject: |
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The PS gig here isn't for real teachers. And by real, I don't mean certified, I mean teachers who are passionate about their vocation and craft. PSs here don't test your knowledge or skills in any consistent way to enable you to grow professionally or creatively. There are too many systemic barriers. It's a limited repertoire. Your portfolio will have so many glaring holes in it that it would be easy to think you'd been robbed. It's easy to let your teaching soul die here for an easy (read: mindless) life and a few extra coins in your pocket.
Although more than a few hagwons are horrendous, there is some real English learning happening there. This really can't be said for the average PS gig. The jealousy, if authentic, reflects mere surface appearances. Shrug it off, Atlas. |
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