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bacasper
Joined: 26 Mar 2007
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 Posted: Sat Jul 25, 2009 10:02 pm Post subject: IMPEACH (Baradolf Hussler) OBAMA |
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In light of
Oregon Offers Terminal Patients Doctor-Assisted Suicide Instead of Medical Care
and
LaRouche: Obama Has Revived Hitler's Genocide Program
is the following hyperbole?
With This Statement From Him, The President Now Deserves Impeachment
Posted: 2009/07/24
From: Mathaba
July 22 (LPAC) - U.S. President Barack Obama delivered a nationally-televised press conference at 8 p.m. on July 22nd, in which on five separate occasions he called for health reform legislation featuring the establishment of "an independent board of doctors and health care experts" to make the life-and-death decisions of what care to provide, and what not, based on cost-effectiveness criteria - exactly the infamous "T-4" policy imposed by Adolf Hitler in 1939, for which the Nazi regime was tried and condemned at Nuremberg.
Lyndon LaRouche commented, within minutes of Obama's remarks:
"President Obama is now impeachable, because he has, in effect, proposed legislation which is an exact copy of the legislation for which the Hitler regime was condemned in the post-war trials. This is an impeachable offense: to propose such a thing in this time, is an impeachable offense. The time has come that the President of the United States deserves impeachment. With this statement from him, the President now deserves impeachment."
In discussions prior to the President's address, LaRouche had noted that we are going into a point where everything is going to blow by no later than about the 12th of October. Therefore, the critical thing is to defeat Obama now on his health care agenda. Defeat him now. If they are forced to extend the deadline and go into the fall before they actually get this thing nailed down, LaRouche explained, then they've already lost. So we've got to escalate to defeat this thing right at this moment.
The President's promotion of this "T-4" as the non-negotiable element of his package is really a Nuremberg crime, LaRouche continued, and that becomes a basis for rallying the forces for defeating this thing, proving that this is a "T-4" fascist program. It's really an act of treason against the General Welfare clause of the Constitution.
Therefore, LaRouche stated, we have got to beat this thing now, because that represents a strategic forcing mechanism; whereas if they ram this thing through in the short term, which they are really desperate to do, then the Constitution is finished, the Republic is gone. It's the equivalent of the Reichstag fire.
Can anyone confirm or refute that this was, in fact, Hitler's "T-4" program? |
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djsmnc
Joined: 20 Jan 2003
Location: Dave's ESL Cafe
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| Posted: Sun Jul 26, 2009 4:30 am Post subject: |
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| I say we crucify the SOB! Hang him! Doctor assisted presidential homicide! |
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visitorq
Joined: 11 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Sun Jul 26, 2009 4:52 am Post subject: |
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| ^ I'm all for it. |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Sun Jul 26, 2009 5:11 am Post subject: |
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My understanding is that the T4 policy was about actively and intentionally killing patients based on certain criteria, including (for example) people with incurable physical and mental disabilities, often either by coercing their (or their guardian's) consent or with no consent at all. It was enacted against both adults and children. It wasn't merely about who to provide or deny care to, it was about outright and directly killing people.
Nothing Obama has proposed is remotely comparable to the policies in question. When hundreds of thousands of people start being murdered because of Obama's policies, this individual might have a point. Until then, it's much more likely he's just trying to reform a health care system that has been spiralling out of control in terms of both cost and quality degredation.
These lunatics only hurt their cause with their hyperbole. |
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bacasper
Joined: 26 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Sun Jul 26, 2009 6:38 am Post subject: |
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| djsmnc wrote: |
| I say we crucify the SOB! Hang him! Doctor assisted presidential homicide! |
Great idea, PAPA: Physician-Assisted Presidential Assassination! The doctor could even be from the CIA, perfect! 
| Fox wrote: |
| My understanding is that the T4 policy was about actively and intentionally killing patients based on certain criteria, including (for example) people with incurable physical and mental disabilities, often either by coercing their (or their guardian's) consent or with no consent at all. It was enacted against both adults and children. It wasn't merely about who to provide or deny care to, it was about outright and directly killing people. |
Apparently, their idea is that withholding treatment is in effect killing people. How much does it really matter if it is direct or indirect? |
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Easter Clark
Joined: 18 Nov 2007
Location: Hiding from Yie Eun-woong
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| Posted: Sun Jul 26, 2009 1:56 pm Post subject: |
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| bacasper wrote: |
Apparently, their idea is that withholding treatment is in effect killing people. How much does it really matter if it is direct or indirect? |
The HMOs have been doing that for decades. |
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doc_ido
Joined: 03 Sep 2007
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| Posted: Sun Jul 26, 2009 7:37 pm Post subject: |
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| Yep, I'm sure they'll be impeaching him any day now. |
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bacasper
Joined: 26 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2009 1:44 am Post subject: |
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| ^ Do you always vote for who you think will be the winner in an election? |
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Otus
Joined: 09 Feb 2006
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| Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2009 3:54 am Post subject: |
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Was wondering if/when LaRouche was going to spring back into action. He seems to pop up around the 6 month mark of any new administration in office.
Personally, I give the guy credit for one thing - I would have never gained an understanding of the 'higher' mathmatics without having read his material on Leibniz and Riemann.
Politically he has too many Plato (Platonic?) tendencies for my liking. Although I don't mind Plato on anything other than politics. |
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bacasper
Joined: 26 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2009 4:09 am Post subject: |
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| Otus wrote: |
| Personally, I give the guy credit for one thing - I would have never gained an understanding of the 'higher' mathmatics without having read his material on Leibniz and Riemann. |
Unlike Leibniz, who never reached the limit of an integral, I am way past my "limit" when it comes to Obushamadolf.
I really believe that people in higher mathematics (grad students and above) exist in a separate, parallel universe (as LaRouche might). |
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Otus
Joined: 09 Feb 2006
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| Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2009 5:35 am Post subject: |
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Otus wrote:
Personally, I give the guy credit for one thing - I would have never gained an understanding of the 'higher' mathmatics without having read his material on Leibniz and Riemann.
Bacasper wrote:
Unlike Leibniz, who never reached the limit of an integral, I am way past my "limit" when it comes to Obushamadolf.
I really believe that people in higher mathematics (grad students and above) exist in a separate, parallel universe (as LaRouche might). |
If I stay sober long enough - I'll start another post on that some day - (don't want to derail this one).
If you want to do some real philosophy, there's some cool stuff in some of La Rouche's publications - but don't get side - tracked by his economics which is where he wants to go. Another colleague of his (I forget the name) wrote the hardcore mathematical methodological approaches.
"Methodological approach" is the key term. It undoubtedly would have upset some of those mathematicians in the "separate, parallel universe" because actually starting with Plato and going through to Leibniz and Riemann, it really puts you on a fast track, ignoring volumes of mind numbing stuff that those mathematicians probably had to study to get to that universe.
But since they are in a 'separate universe' already, I guess they can't come over and kick butt.
Anyway, sorry - back to the topic at hand ....
"The essence of genius lies in knowing what to overlook." |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2009 6:17 am Post subject: |
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| bacasper wrote: |
| Fox wrote: |
| My understanding is that the T4 policy was about actively and intentionally killing patients based on certain criteria, including (for example) people with incurable physical and mental disabilities, often either by coercing their (or their guardian's) consent or with no consent at all. It was enacted against both adults and children. It wasn't merely about who to provide or deny care to, it was about outright and directly killing people. |
Apparently, their idea is that withholding treatment is in effect killing people. How much does it really matter if it is direct or indirect? |
I haven't heard anything which implies Obama's policies will lead to people being denied treatment they need to live.
For argument's sake, though, let's say Obama's policy does end up requiring something like this. The boards that make decisions about how to use donated/harvested organs all ready make decisions about who to provide or deny organ-transplant related treatments -- which people often need to live -- to out of a limited pool of possible treatments, and I don't see anyone claiming they're like the Nazis or even that they indirectly kill people. If you've got a finite supply, and demand outweighs supply, someone has to decide how that supply is distributed.
This is a quote from Big Bird's recent thread:
| Article wrote: |
| Potter was also working for Cigna when it became embroiled in the case of Nataline Sarkisyan, whose family went public after Cigna refused to pay for a liver transplant that it considered "experimental" and therefore not covered by their policy. Cigna reversed this decision only hours before the Californian teenager died. "I wish I could have done more in that case," Potter said. |
This sort of thing is what Obama is trying to stop, in my understanding. How that can be likened to systematic killing, I don't know. |
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Nowhere Man
Joined: 08 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2009 7:53 am Post subject: ... |
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| I haven't heard anything which implies Obama's policies will lead to people being denied treatment they need to live. |
Nope, and LaRouche is so far in the fringe that he makes Alex Jones look like a hobbyist. Interesting evocation of Hitler considering his Brownshirt actions in the 70s.
But bacasper, do tell us when Obama exterminates someone. |
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NAVFC
Joined: 10 May 2006
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| Posted: Fri Jul 31, 2009 11:09 pm Post subject: |
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Bacasper, you really should bother learning a thing or two about what your talking about before you post something on it. Really. Otherwise you'd have known that you can not impeach a president merely because you or others percieve him to be doing a bad job. Impeachment isn't a vote of no confidence. It's to be used when the President has committed high crimes or misdemeanors. No matter how much you don't like his health plan, it is not justification for impeachment.
Secondly, you are grossly exxagerating things in his health plan in a attempt to fear monger people. In this regard your acting no differently then FNC or WND. There is no commission who will "decide who lives or dies". This is complete nonsense, and you know it. |
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bacasper
Joined: 26 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Sat Aug 01, 2009 12:31 am Post subject: |
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| NAVFC wrote: |
Bacasper, you really should bother learning a thing or two about what your talking about before you post something on it. Really. Otherwise you'd have known that you can not impeach a president merely because you or others percieve him to be doing a bad job. Impeachment isn't a vote of no confidence. It's to be used when the President has committed high crimes or misdemeanors. No matter how much you don't like his health plan, it is not justification for impeachment.
Secondly, you are grossly exxagerating things in his health plan in a attempt to fear monger people. In this regard your acting no differently then FNC or WND. There is no commission who will "decide who lives or dies". This is complete nonsense, and you know it. |
I didn't know the specifics of the T-4 program; I always thought they were blood cells.
So I asked the collective wisdom of Dave's to confirm or refute it. Again, my posting of an article does not necessarily mean I wholeheartedly endorse everything in it. I may post an article which I think is totally absurd if it might demonstrate a point.
So are you saying that where the article states that BO
| Quote: |
| called for health reform legislation featuring the establishment of "an independent board of doctors and health care experts" to make the life-and-death decisions of what care to provide, and what not, based on cost-effectiveness criteria |
, it is a gross lie? |
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