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Summer Wine
Joined: 20 Mar 2005
Location: Next to a River
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 Posted: Sun Nov 15, 2009 1:41 am Post subject: Why Can�t Muslim Societies Be More Like a Globalised West? |
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BEIRUT � Many commentators on Islam make the same mistake: They instinctively assume that Muslim resistance to western globalisation reflects the inability of Muslims to accept the social and structural change that �modernity� requires. Muslims, in this view, fail to rise above the �closed� world of cultural traditions, and to embrace change. They shy away from, or react against the �choice� offered by modernity.
The Philosopher, Henri Bergson, writing in 1932, suggested that one reason that some intellectual societies � for which he coined the term �closed� societies � were unable to evolve into �open� societies was that religion arises as a kind of mental habit that binds human intelligence to the instinctive drive for solidarity and continuity. Some societies were simply incapable of lifting themselves above these �cultural constraints� to embrace dynamic society. Karl Popper in his �The Open Society and its Enemies� further refined Bergson to imply that �closed� societies were profoundly inimical to the idea of human freedom.
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http://conflictsforum.org/2009/why-can%e2%80%99t-muslim-societies-be-more-like-a-globalised-west/#more-443
Some of you might find this an interesting read and discussion. |
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caniff
Joined: 03 Feb 2004
Location: All over the map
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| Posted: Sun Nov 15, 2009 2:42 am Post subject: |
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F: "I just discovered the cure for cancer!!
M: "Why are you alone in this lab without your costume?"
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| In short, Islamists are re-opening an ancient debate |
Thanks? |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Sun Nov 15, 2009 3:31 am Post subject: |
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| Advanced, globalized society requires secularization. Muslims seem to have a hard time with that. It's that simple. |
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pkang0202
Joined: 09 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Sun Nov 15, 2009 5:47 am Post subject: |
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| Fox wrote: |
| Advanced, globalized society requires secularization. Muslims seem to have a hard time with that. It's that simple. |
How would you categorize Vatican City? |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Sun Nov 15, 2009 6:01 am Post subject: |
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| pkang0202 wrote: |
| Fox wrote: |
| Advanced, globalized society requires secularization. Muslims seem to have a hard time with that. It's that simple. |
How would you categorize Vatican City? |
As a total non-contributor to modern society. Quite the opposite in fact, the Vatican actively harms modern society. Perhaps in more subtle ways than terrorists, but just as surely. |
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Koveras
Joined: 09 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Sun Nov 15, 2009 6:20 am Post subject: |
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| Why can't you be more like me? |
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bacasper
Joined: 26 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Sun Nov 15, 2009 6:22 am Post subject: |
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| How is this a current event? |
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Reggie
Joined: 21 Sep 2009
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| Posted: Sun Nov 15, 2009 6:32 am Post subject: |
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| When they leave their worship service at the Seoul mosque and make their way down Hooker Hill to get on the Line 6 subway, the Muslims probably see Westerners doing so many things the Quran tells them not to do. |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Sun Nov 15, 2009 6:55 am Post subject: |
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Who cares.
1) Don't import them
2) Don't invade them
Then we don't have to worry about them. |
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bacasper
Joined: 26 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Sun Nov 15, 2009 7:29 am Post subject: |
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| mises wrote: |
Who cares.
1) Don't import them
2) Don't invade them
Then we don't have to worry about them. |
x2 |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Sun Nov 15, 2009 8:58 am Post subject: |
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| Koveras wrote: |
| Why can't you be more like me? |
I agree with the spirit of this question. I don't need them to change who they are. I don't really care if women in Saudi wear their clown costumes outside. I don't care. I don't care. A million times, I don't care. Western people need to accept that inside of every obedient muslim or whoever isn't a secular, liberal minded American/Canadian/Brit who just needs some social justice to stop oppressing their women or hating the Jews etc. They are who they are. I demand nothing of them. That is, nothing more than they stay home. We should reciprocate. |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Sun Nov 15, 2009 9:17 am Post subject: |
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| pkang0202 wrote: |
| How would you categorize Vatican City? |
J. Stalin hit the nail on the head, though: How many divisions does the Pope command? Otherwise, I would call it a nice compromise, like the Turks who initially separated the ruler and the caliph, before finally abolishing the latter.
Last edited by Gopher on Sun Nov 15, 2009 9:21 am; edited 3 times in total |
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Street Magic
Joined: 23 Sep 2009
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| Posted: Sun Nov 15, 2009 9:18 am Post subject: |
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| mises wrote: |
| Koveras wrote: |
| Why can't you be more like me? |
I agree with the spirit of this question. I don't need them to change who they are. I don't really care if women in Saudi wear their clown costumes outside. I don't care. I don't care. A million times, I don't care. Western people need to accept that inside of every obedient muslim or whoever isn't a secular, liberal minded American/Canadian/Brit who just needs some social justice to stop oppressing their women or hating the Jews etc. They are who they are. I demand nothing of them. That is, nothing more than they stay home. We should reciprocate. |
There's a line somewhere though, isn't there? Would you be willing to stay out of the domestic affairs of the Third Reich so long as they refrained from engaging your country in conflict? More broadly, do you believe in the concept of human rights violations? Would you only support the enforcement of laws against crimes in your own country insofar as the crimes might interfere with your personal affairs? |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Sun Nov 15, 2009 9:20 am Post subject: |
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| Street Magic wrote: |
| Would you be willing to stay out of the domestic affairs of the Third Reich so long as they refrained from engaging your country in conflict? |
If they had kept to themselves there never would have been a war. But it was in their nature to provoke and then fight that war. This question is hypothetical and requires counterfactual thinking.
Back in the real world, that is exactly the position the American govt has taken in its relations with Beijing since 1972 -- and rightly so. |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Sun Nov 15, 2009 9:23 am Post subject: |
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| Would you be willing to stay out of the domestic affairs of the Third Reich so long as they refrained from engaging your country in conflict? |
No. But as far as I know, muslim states aren't culling any groups right now. They have in the past, and if they do again we can talk about it. They're pathetically weak. They couldn't project a movie. Let them be. When the oil runs out they'll go back to riding camels around the way.
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| More broadly, do you believe in the concept of human rights violations? |
I do.
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| Would you only support the enforcement of laws against crimes in your own country insofar as the crimes might interfere with your personal affairs? |
Don't know. Anyways, I'm anti-war. That's my foundation. I'm also very much about minding our own business. Let's focus on being the best us we can be etc. |
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