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JackSarang
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
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 Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2004 8:02 am Post subject: Advice: Should I quit or wait to get fired? |
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So I'm 7 months into this contract. I've been told that the Director is thinking about or is going to fire me and the source is 100% reliable. Now, this doesn't come as a complete surprise (just a vibe I get) but in typical Korean fashion he has never once expressed displeasure in my performance or otherwise indicated he wanted to get rid of me. Apparently its due to those mysterious "parent complaints" which is doubly mysterious because I've never had an issue with any of my students. The school is doing very well also, to the point where they need more teachers, not cut down.
Now, my Director is a pretty decent guy, speaks decent english and treats all the teachers well. We get paid on time, don't get jerked around etc. So I'm pretty sure he would give me the legal 30 days notice (he does everything strictly by the book so I'm sure he knows the Labour Laws). He doesn't done so yet.
So my major issue I have is this proverbial axe hanging over my head. Now I could just try and ride things out, since circumstances have him needing me around to fill the classes right now (2 teachers he was hoping would re-sign chose not to and he's only replaced one, so we're short). So I figure I'm "safe" for a least another month and a 1/2. At which point I'd be at 9 1/2 months and it might not be worth it to fire me. He's disgustingly rich as it is and screwing me out of severence and return ticket are probably the last of his motives. I should also mention that all previous teachers have finished their contracts without incident and recieved their severence/return ticket without issue.
The flipside is I'm no longer in control of my own destiny and simply "not knowing" is pretty stressful. He could serve me up with my walking papers tomorrow for all I know. So if I start looking for another job now, I can check out other schools and such and when I've found something I can setup a start date a month later, then hand in my 30 day notice to my present Director. That way things are on my timetable and at the very least, the stress of being in limbo is gone.
Anyway, wondering what anyone else would suggest in this situation.
Jack. |
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tsgarp
Joined: 01 Dec 2003
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| Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2004 8:05 am Post subject: |
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| Why don't you just go up to him LIKE AN ADULT and politely ask, hey what do you think of my teaching? I'd like to hear your thoughts because as the boss it matters to me? Be polite and make it seem like you're genuinely interested in being a better teacher. |
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sadsac
Joined: 22 Dec 2003
Location: Gwangwang
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| Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2004 8:49 am Post subject: |
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I agree with the the idea that tsgarpstated, but I would ask him directly if he has any intention of terminating your contract and then ask why if the response is positive. You have said that he is a pretty decent director, so I would be honest with him and say that you have heard a rumor to that end and you need to clarify it. Be honest about your concerns because of what you have heard. Best of luck.  |
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Derrek
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2004 12:01 pm Post subject: |
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7 months in, and he is responsible for airfare, etc....
I'd ask him about it, or you will go nuts. Whether you stick it out until the end is up to you. Yes, I also hate how Koreans offer NO feedback. Had it happen to me before, too. On the flipside, the director was asking me to consider coming back 2 months later. No thanks. The situation stressed me out, also.
Talk to him. You'll likely hear something upsetting or even unfair (be mentally prepared), but just keep your head and don't freak out when you hear it.
From that point, you'll better know what you want to do. Five months is a long time to continue working somewhere you don't like. |
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wylde
Joined: 14 Apr 2003
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| Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2004 2:58 pm Post subject: Re: Advice: Should I quit or wait to get fired? |
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| JackSarang wrote: |
| I'm pretty sure he would give me the legal 30 days notice (he does everything strictly by the book so I'm sure he knows the Labour Laws). |
don't fool yourself.. there is no labor law to cover you.
there will be something in your contract that you have breached, if not, he will find something or invent it.
| tsgarp wrote: |
| Why don't you just go up to him LIKE AN ADULT and politely ask, hey what do you think of my teaching? I'd like to hear your thoughts because as the boss it matters to me? Be polite and make it seem like you're genuinely interested in being a better teacher. |
if he has made up his mind to fire him he is not going to tell him and be a teacher short whilst wait for another teacher to arrive. my last hogwon this happened, i asked the boss about job security and she said there was nothing to worry about... biatch
8 days latter i was sacked on the spot.. she did pay everything though, i will give her credit.. 5 months working, no need to pay but she gave me what i was owed, 1 month in advance & my 2 mill severance 
she was a biatch though and made my days hell... if she did give me notice i would have been in the kids ears and tried to poach them for my friends hogwon.
i can see why instant dismissal is popular.
things depend on whether you want to work in korea again or ya just wanna go home... |
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Mankind
Joined: 18 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2004 6:08 pm Post subject: Re: Advice: Should I quit or wait to get fired? |
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[quote="wylde"]
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don't fool yourself.. there is no labor law to cover you.
there will be something in your contract that you have breached, if not, he will find something or invent it.
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Yes there is. I do some work for the labour board, so trust me. Don't quit! If he fires you, he must give 30 days notice or 30 days pay. It's the law and you will get your money. (If you've worked 6 months, and the Hogwan has more the 5 employees).
HAND |
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wylde
Joined: 14 Apr 2003
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| Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2004 7:25 pm Post subject: Re: Advice: Should I quit or wait to get fired? |
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| Mankind wrote: |
| wylde wrote: |
| Quote: |
don't fool yourself.. there is no labor law to cover you.
there will be something in your contract that you have breached, if not, he will find something or invent it.
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Yes there is. I do some work for the labour board, so trust me. Don't quit! If he fires you, he must give 30 days notice or 30 days pay. It's the law and you will get your money. (If you've worked 6 months, and the Hogwan has more the 5 employees).
HAND |
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check the contract properly - there are clauses for instant dismissal and the employer could easily slot you into one of those.. even if he makes false accusations, it is up to you to stuff around for the next few months to prove that they were just that, false.
in that case, pay for time in lieu of the 30 days is void.
sometimes it is better to bite the bullet, count your losses and quit or run after payday. this can be done many ways but if you want to get another job in korea you will need a letter of release. if that is the case... do not burn him otherwise there will be more hassles. start saving your money bro, ya never know what is around the corner.
whether you work for the labor board or ronald mcdonald... it doesn't change anything |
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JackSarang
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2004 7:45 pm Post subject: |
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| tsgarp wrote: |
| Why don't you just go up to him LIKE AN ADULT and politely ask, hey what do you think of my teaching? I'd like to hear your thoughts because as the boss it matters to me? Be polite and make it seem like you're genuinely interested in being a better teacher. |
The "adult" thing to do in this situation would have been the director telling me what his issues were so I could correct them. Instead he's made it seem like everything is just fine when apparently its not. And I have asked about my teaching in the past, after Parent-Come-to-Class days I asked how it went and he said, "Its good, all the parents are very satisfied".
Given that he avoids all confrontation I have no reason to believe he'd be honest with me and say, "Yes, I'm going to fire you, just not yet." He'd simply lie and do it later. As has happened to many others, including people in this thread apparently. |
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FUBAR
Joined: 21 Oct 2003
Location: The Y.C.
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| Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2004 8:05 pm Post subject: |
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| JackSarang wrote: |
| tsgarp wrote: |
| Why don't you just go up to him LIKE AN ADULT and politely ask, hey what do you think of my teaching? I'd like to hear your thoughts because as the boss it matters to me? Be polite and make it seem like you're genuinely interested in being a better teacher. |
The "adult" thing to do in this situation would have been the director telling me what his issues were so I could correct them. Instead he's made it seem like everything is just fine when apparently its not. And I have asked about my teaching in the past, after Parent-Come-to-Class days I asked how it went and he said, "Its good, all the parents are very satisfied".
Given that he avoids all confrontation I have no reason to believe he'd be honest with me and say, "Yes, I'm going to fire you, just not yet." He'd simply lie and do it later. As has happened to many others, including people in this thread apparently. |
"sack up" or you deserve to worry yourself to death.
I don't understand why people lose their spine when they come here.  |
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tsgarp
Joined: 01 Dec 2003
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| Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2004 8:12 pm Post subject: |
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| FUBAR wrote: |
| JackSarang wrote: |
| tsgarp wrote: |
| Why don't you just go up to him LIKE AN ADULT and politely ask, hey what do you think of my teaching? I'd like to hear your thoughts because as the boss it matters to me? Be polite and make it seem like you're genuinely interested in being a better teacher. |
The "adult" thing to do in this situation would have been the director telling me what his issues were so I could correct them. Instead he's made it seem like everything is just fine when apparently its not. And I have asked about my teaching in the past, after Parent-Come-to-Class days I asked how it went and he said, "Its good, all the parents are very satisfied".
Given that he avoids all confrontation I have no reason to believe he'd be honest with me and say, "Yes, I'm going to fire you, just not yet." He'd simply lie and do it later. As has happened to many others, including people in this thread apparently. |
"sack up" or you deserve to worry yourself to death.
I don't understand why people lose their spine when they come here. |
Exactly. Half of the problems stem from a strange willingness to forgo one's rights and to just wait for the consequences. If I were Jack I'd go to the boss, tell him my concerns, guage his response, and make my decision on the basis of our conversation and my impression of it. It's better than sitting around full of fear and trepidation. |
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wylde
Joined: 14 Apr 2003
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| Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2004 8:41 pm Post subject: Re: Advice: Should I quit or wait to get fired? |
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| wylde wrote: |
if he has made up his mind to fire him he is not going to tell him and be a teacher short whilst wait for another teacher to arrive. my last hogwon this happened, i asked the boss about job security and she said there was nothing to worry about... biatch
8 days latter i was sacked on the spot.. she did pay everything though, i will give her credit.. 5 months working, no need to pay but she gave me what i was owed, 1 month in advance & my 2 mill severance |
i knew something was going down.. i pulled her aside 1 day and asked her what problems there were and if she was thinking of sacking me... she said there are a few complaints from parents... blah, blah, blah
i know what these were.
eg 1 - a girl wouldn't shut up 1 day in class so i told her to stand in the corner. when i went into school the next day, the boss pulled me aside and said ' i've had a complaint from a parent, she told me that your foreign teacher said her daughter is terible at english and she may as well give up as she has no future with english'
i said 'bullsh1t. she was a rude little biatch so i put her in the corner'.
she then asked me why the mother would lie.. i said because the girl was a spoit brat and was embarressed in front of her friends so she invented some *beep* about me and went home and told her mother.. the boss didnt believe me.
eg 2 - a boy student was a rude little turd 1 day so i got angry and said that if he kept playing around in class everybody will suffer and that there were people in this class that wanted to learn.. he called me a ssi bal nom 3 times to my face. i grabbed his arm and dragged him down to the boss, i told her what happened and left him with her... 5 minutes later she brought him back to class and was angry at me for not understanding that the boy opposite him was kicking him under the table and he was actually saying it to him (whilst looking me in the eye).. no concern that he actually said it at all... the next day the boss pulled me aside again and told me about a complaint from his mother saying that i was picking on him.
there is a pile more of that type of stuff
the accusations were baseless but they stood when it came down to terminating me on the spot. there were clauses in my contract for stuff like that and it was enough in her mind for instant dismissal... if i had any problems, i had to take it up with another party...
the best thing she did was say that if i could be out of the room tomorrow she would pay me up in full.. i was out and she did pay |
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kangnamdragon
Joined: 17 Jan 2003
Location: Kangnam, Seoul, Korea
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| Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2004 9:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Have you tried talking to him? Don't make a decision based upon rumors. Maybe another teacher is jealous of you. |
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Mankind
Joined: 18 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2004 10:06 pm Post subject: |
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check the contract properly - there are clauses for instant dismissal and the employer could easily slot you into one of those.. even if he makes false accusations, it is up to you to stuff around for the next few months to prove that they were just that, false.
in that case, pay for time in lieu of the 30 days is void. |
BIG BIG WRONG. God I wish people who had NO idea what they were talking about would stuff a sock in it. I would have less work to do. Read carefully; there is no way a contract can take away your legal owed rights. NONE. Just because it says it in the contract does not make it legally binding in Korea. Half of the things people agree too are poppycock. God you can have no contract or visa and still can go after missing wages in Korea.
HAND |
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wylde
Joined: 14 Apr 2003
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| Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2004 11:31 pm Post subject: |
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you forgot to include this bro -
| wylde wrote: |
| the accusations were baseless but they stood when it came down to terminating me on the spot. there were clauses in my contract for stuff like that and it was enough in her mind for instant dismissal... if i had any problems, i had to take it up with another party... |
| Mankind wrote: |
| Quote: |
check the contract properly - there are clauses for instant dismissal and the employer could easily slot you into one of those.. even if he makes false accusations, it is up to you to stuff around for the next few months to prove that they were just that, false.
in that case, pay for time in lieu of the 30 days is void. |
BIG BIG WRONG. God I wish people who had NO idea what they were talking about would stuff a sock in it. I would have less work to do. Read carefully; there is no way a contract can take away your legal owed rights. NONE. Just because it says it in the contract does not make it legally binding in Korea. Half of the things people agree too are poppycock. God you can have no contract or visa and still can go after missing wages in Korea.
HAND |
there is NO BIG BIG WRONG in that. notice the highlighted the bit where you agree with me.. here is what i said -
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| if i had any problems, i had to take it up with another party... |
| Quote: |
| Read carefully; there is no way a contract can take away your legal owed rights. NONE. Just because it says it in the contract does not make it legally binding in Korea. |
so if i have signed something and agreed that i wouldn't go to school drunk or i would wear a shirt & tie and then went against what i said.. that is ok?
if i did or didnt it would still be their word against mine anyway for something like being drunk (if there was nobody else that came forward) at school. i'm sure you can get my money for me if i came to school drunk
regardless,
IF YOUR BOSS TERMINATES YOU ON THE SPOT - YOU WILL ONLY GET THE MONEY THAT IS OWED TO YOU UP UNTIL THAT TIME
stick your own sock in it.
when my former boss said go, i said that your allegations are false and i'm going to see mankind.. she said go, do it.
sure there are lots of things you can do after the fact.. but my whole point is.. it is after the fact. i wouldnt bother going through all that crap to get back a little money.
besides, there might be other reasons like jacksarang has no cash and would be stranded if he was sacked on the spot. maybe he has no money for a plane ticket and nowhere to live.. but thats ok.. just sleep in the gutter for 2 months til we sort out your 2 mill. |
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JackSarang
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Thu Mar 11, 2004 12:04 am Post subject: |
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| kangnamdragon wrote: |
| Have you tried talking to him? Don't make a decision based upon rumors. Maybe another teacher is jealous of you. |
I haven't yet. Because I don't want to exacerbate things. I would, but unfortunately my cashflow situation at present basically means that if I'm fired on the spot I am severely screwed. I can't afford my own plane ticket home and would have barely enough cash to stuff myself into a goshiwon for a few days and try and find the first available job.
Anyway, the reason its more than "just a rumour" is because the teacher that told me only works there part time. Basically, she works full-time at another school in the mornings then works part-time at mine at night. She was essentially offered my job. It was like, "Quit your other school and work here full-time, we're going to fire Jack." But she declined because the contract they offered her was apparently a joke because she's Phillipino-American. Also, the other full-time teacher whose contract just came up, was asked to re-sign, which she was willing to do, but wanted to renegotiate hours and pay and such. According to her, the renegoiations showed a completely different side of the director and things got pretty ugly with her ultimately choosing not to resign.
Anyhow, If I make it to next week, I get paid so I'll be keeping a much larger chunk aside as safety cash incase I get screwed. Then I'll ask him what the deal is just to be done with it and be prepared for the worst either way. |
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