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| What results are you hoping for in regards to S. Korea this WC? |
| I hope they win the whole thing! |
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23% |
[ 21 ] |
| I hope they make it past group play, but I'm not cheering for them to win the whole thing. |
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21% |
[ 19 ] |
| I hope they lose every match they play. |
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27% |
[ 25 ] |
| I don't care too much, as long as they lose at least one match on a "controversial" call. The Korean netizens are much more entertaining than their soccer team. |
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16% |
[ 15 ] |
| Meh. |
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11% |
[ 10 ] |
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| Total Votes : 90 |
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cj1976
Joined: 26 Oct 2005
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 Posted: Thu Jun 10, 2010 5:55 pm Post subject: |
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Don't even get me started about the moon landing! lol
It was more than 'a few bad calls' and a lot of people around the world saw that too. Only those blinded by their love of Korea failed to see it.
Hey Homer, if it wasn't a Korean team committing all those blatant fouls would you still dismiss it so easily? You need to take off the apologist hat sometimes.
I'm not 100% convinced it was fixed but I have my suspicions. Corruption, dishonesty and fraud is so rife in almost all aspects of Korean society that the possibility of match fixing cannot be so quickly dismissed. I refer you back to the Roy Jones Jr affair, where it turns out the judges were wined and dined by Korean officials.
Also, football is sadly not a game without it's share of scandal. Just look at the Juventus case a few years ago, or the Premiership match fixing cases. |
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jvalmer
Joined: 06 Jun 2003
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| Posted: Thu Jun 10, 2010 6:02 pm Post subject: |
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| It's always the losing side that complain about anything. Should hear some of my friends when their favorite hockey team loses. |
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oldfatfarang
Joined: 19 May 2005
Location: On the road to somewhere.
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| Posted: Thu Jun 10, 2010 7:06 pm Post subject: |
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| cj1976 wrote: |
| Discrete, Oriental ways? Please elaborate on this because it sounds rather intriguing as I am also oriental (do people still use that term?). ) |
I still use Oriental to describe cultures, countries, peoples from Japan, Korea and China, i.e., the Far East. This is British language usuage, and it isn't considered offensive. Although I see the use has dwindled in USA English. You can read more about it here.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orient
By Discrete Oriental ways, I mean the way Oriental people interact indirectly , especially with Westerners. That is, when you offend them, they may not necessarily tell you to your face (everyone loses face then), but they will continue to smile to ensure group harmony is maintained (at that moment). However, if you have really annoyed them, they will discretely muck you about and use passive aggressive non-confrontational strategies to either a) let you know you've offended them, or b) to seek revenge.
Anyone who's taught in Korea for a while has come across this Discrete Oriental way of interaction. It is completely opposite of Western notions of direct, confrontational behavior. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Thu Jun 10, 2010 10:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Greekfreak wrote: |
In any event, I said it in 2006, so I will say it again; if Korea wins, I hope it's cleanly because it's a country that needs less controversy; not more. |
Korea could win every game cleanly and there would still be people on here screaming about bribery and match-fixing. |
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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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| Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 4:07 am Post subject: |
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| cj1976 wrote: |
Don't even get me started about the moon landing! lol
It was more than 'a few bad calls' and a lot of people around the world saw that too. Only those blinded by their love of Korea failed to see it.
Hey Homer, if it wasn't a Korean team committing all those blatant fouls would you still dismiss it so easily? You need to take off the apologist hat sometimes.
I'm not 100% convinced it was fixed but I have my suspicions. Corruption, dishonesty and fraud is so rife in almost all aspects of Korean society that the possibility of match fixing cannot be so quickly dismissed. I refer you back to the Roy Jones Jr affair, where it turns out the judges were wined and dined by Korean officials.
Also, football is sadly not a game without it's share of scandal. Just look at the Juventus case a few years ago, or the Premiership match fixing cases. |
I saw the calls, they were questionable to bad...but as a sane person I accept that these calls happen in every world cup.
Case in point: in 2006 I sure did not go froathing at the mouth when Switzerland scored their 2nd goal against Korea. The call was said to have been bad, I was not sure...it happens.
Same thing with Ireland vs France in qualifiers, clear handball by Henry, FIFA does nothing, Ireland sees their hopes of qualification vanish..again bad call...no need to go nuts.
I am not one to believe in match fixing because frankly speaking people assume it is far easier that it would actually be. Do you realize how many people would need to be involved? How long do you think such a secret would hold? How many people in the game itself would need to paid off to fix a game?
Bad calls are bad calls....thats it for me.
The amusing thing cj is not what I say (they are bad calls) it is the obsession of some about those 2002 games....get over it, bad calls happen...or keep obsessing over it, it remains amusing to see you go nuts about it.
It is easy to cry conspiracy but kind hard to prove when you actually look at the facts...
Personnally I intend to enjoy this WC. My wife being Korean we will cheer them on. I am also behind England as I like their team. I would also like to see the US do well.
Last edited by PatrickGHBusan on Fri Jun 11, 2010 4:17 am; edited 1 time in total |
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cj1976
Joined: 26 Oct 2005
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| Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 4:14 am Post subject: |
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| Fair enough, but it's a bit sad that Koreans think their progress in that tournament was purely down to merit. Had the tournament been in any other country, I don't think they would have made it to the semis. |
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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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| Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 4:18 am Post subject: |
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| cj1976 wrote: |
| Fair enough, but it's a bit sad that Koreans think their progress in that tournament was purely down to merit. Had the tournament been in any other country, I don't think they would have made it to the semis. |
Hosts typically do well indeed. Fan support goes a long way indeed. I wonder if it will carry South Africa in this Cup.... |
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tiger fancini
Joined: 21 Mar 2006
Location: Testicles for Eyes
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| Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 6:30 am Post subject: |
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| canale226 wrote: |
| Hahaha that's amazing! Seriously though, you must be careful of the funny comments regarding Korea. I told my class yesterday Korea is only "so-so" and they all refused to speak to me for the rest of the day.... they would have rather me said that Korea is going to win it, they are the best side (and lied to them in the process) than tell them the truth.... that Korea is an average side at best, and have their work cut out for them to reach the next round. |
| oldfatfarang wrote: |
I'd be careful with the banter. Koreans don't get that sort of humor, at all.
During the last World Cup, some hagwon students asked me who was going to win: Switzerland or Korea? I, naievly, said: "Switzerland, because I used to have a beautiful blonde Swiss girl friend." Wow. The kids cancelled the class and didn't come back to the hagwon for 6 months! |
How old are your students? My adult students LOVE the banter and ribbing. If Man.Utd lose, I give them plenty of grief. If my team lose, they reciprocate. I find adult Korean football fans pretty similar to British football fans in this respect. |
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oskinny1
Joined: 10 Nov 2006
Location: Right behind you!
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| Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 8:35 am Post subject: |
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| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
Fan support goes a long way indeed. I wonder if it will carry South Africa in this Cup.... |
Nope, looks like it will be up to the referees, just like in 2002.
Though SA played much better than I thought they would. |
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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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| Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 9:06 am Post subject: |
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1-1 draw.
Not a bad start for SA. |
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metalhead
Joined: 18 May 2010
Location: Toilet
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| Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 9:20 am Post subject: |
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| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
1-1 draw.
Not a bad start for SA. |
The first half was dull, second half was good, could've been 2-1 for SA near the end.
Anyone catch the opening ceremony? What was that huge dung beetle walking around on the field? |
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misher
Joined: 14 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 11:02 am Post subject: |
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Nothing was amiss beyond some bad calls....man you consipary theorists are amusing.
By the way...did the US really land on the moon?
I heard it was staged care to investigate this cj? |
Patrick I see what you are getting at and you are correct in that many teams have had calls go against them in the past. Although I'm not some kind of conspiracy theorist or believe some nonsense like South Korean officials paying off the refs with a new Equus, I am enough of a footy fan to know that corruption in FIFA, due to the bookies making hundreds of millions of dollars and FIFAS agenda to promote football in areas of potential (ASIA = $$$$$), cannot be ignored. THe Japan/South Korean world cup was an experiment and many games had unsold tickets much to FIFA's dismay. THey were determined to have at least one of the host teams NOT be knocked out of the group stage round and maybe make the 16/quarters or even semis. Now were the matches 100% fixed in South Korea's favor? No, as that is completely absurd. You can't however completely dismiss the blunders that the refs made in the Spain/Italy games just due to some chancy poor officiating. Any hardcore football fan from any country could tell you that those games were officiated in somewhat of a biased manner. And yes in the the past other teams have been beneficiaries of this type of casual officiating too so South Korea isn't exactly alone in regards to this situation. However, defending South Korea with the argument that the refs just happen to be human and miss some calls here and there is completely ridiculous.
FIFA is about money and expansion and were in a huge jam because of the lack of ticket sales compared to other WCs. THe fact that SK went so far to basically kickstart a money making football machine in South Korea (even though most South Koreans are still not soccer fans) definitely pleased FIFA's executives. They are a business and will act like one. WIll they ask refs to outright fix matches? No. But I question your knowledge of soccer/football as a game and business if you think refs are just human beings making human mistakes and corruption hardly exists. |
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misher
Joined: 14 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 11:18 am Post subject: |
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Case in point: in 2006 I sure did not go froathing at the mouth when Switzerland scored their 2nd goal against Korea. The call was said to have been bad, I was not sure...it happens.
Same thing with Ireland vs France in qualifiers, clear handball by Henry, FIFA does nothing, Ireland sees their hopes of qualification vanish..again bad call...no need to go nuts |
Wrong.
The Swiss goal due to the FIFA rulebook was 100% legitimate. Watching the replay 1 minute after the goal was made CLEARLY showed the the pass to Frei was made ACCIDENTALLY through a deflection by a Korean defender. The play was supposed to continue and it was amazing the the ref made the right call and continued the play because the linesman completely missed it. Any footy fan would know that after they saw the replay and it is surprising to me that SBS has shown this replay many times as it was still some kind of injustice.
Henry's goal on the other hand was outright illegal. THe replay clearly showed the pass being deflected off his hand/arm illegally. THe ref, as you point out ruled the goal as legal and made the wrong call.
If we are talking about a team getting screwed because of a win some lose some chancy bad call made by a ref, then the two situations cannot be compared.
Look, I'm not here to hate on South Koreas team. They play hard, have some very talented players that are only getting better and I hope they can do well and play some entertaining football. On the other hand I'm not going to outright apologize for or defend some of their claims of "unfairness," or deny that they have ALSO been the beneficiary of some questionable calls in the past. |
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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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| Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 11:34 am Post subject: |
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Misher,
I did not discuss the call in the Swiss game as being right or wrong according to the rules. I discussed my reaction to what appeared to have been, at that time, a bad call and my reaction after: bad call move on.
The fact the call was proven right after is besides the point in the frame of this discussion.
In 2002, some horrid calls were made in many games, not just Koreas games. My point is this tends to happen at every WC and that what happens after the bad call is out of proportion and warped.
The ref has no zoom, nor does he have replay or slow motion. He is in a hot and noisy stadium judging a play in seconds. Then his work gets dissected to the point where it becomes a joke. What often happens is pundits and fans lean on camera angles that have been re-worked with computers to get a better view using zooms, angle modification and so on.
The fans|pundits then lash the ref for being an idiot, being bought.
Refs are human, they make mistakes, accept it and move on.
I am not defending the Korean team because frankly they have nothing to be defended against. The players just played the games, they have nothing to do with officiating decisions. This applies to the Italy and Spain games in 2002. The refs made questionable calls, Korea and the Korean players have nothing to defend there nor are they accused of anything. Hence, I have no need to defend them.
If I am defending anyone, it is the referees who do a tough job in tough conditions with less then ideal tools at their disposal.
As for Italy ad Spain in 2002....they lost these games but had chances to win them. The bad decisions may have hurt them but in the end they lost due to what they did or did not do on the field.
Italy: Vieri missed TWO glorious changes in the second half. The ref did nothing there....he missed.
Spain: It went to penalties and they choked the big one when the spaniard blew his shot. Again, the ref was not involved in the penalty shootout.
Personally, I think the refs make mistakes, often. They make bad calls, often. |
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morrisonhotel
Joined: 18 Jul 2009
Location: Gyeonggi-do
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| Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 4:31 pm Post subject: |
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| oskinny1 wrote: |
| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
Fan support goes a long way indeed. I wonder if it will carry South Africa in this Cup.... |
Nope, looks like it will be up to the referees, just like in 2002.
Though SA played much better than I thought they would. |
The offside call was abysmal. |
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