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recessiontime

Joined: 21 Jun 2010 Location: Got avatar privileges nyahahaha
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Posted: Thu Jul 01, 2010 8:20 am Post subject: |
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| pkang0202 wrote: |
| Anyone who says a Bachelor's degree means nothing are the same people who wouldn't be caught dead omitting that they graduated from college on a job application. |
red herring.
The main argument the article makes is that the college degree is a bubble. It's just not worth what we thought it was and the cost isn't justifiable.
thanks for playing.  |
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pangaea

Joined: 20 Dec 2007
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Posted: Thu Jul 01, 2010 8:50 am Post subject: |
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pkang0202 wrote:
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| Anyone who says a Bachelor's degree means nothing are the same people who wouldn't be caught dead omitting that they graduated from college on a job application. |
I don't think you understand the point of the article or the discussion. |
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Mr. Pink

Joined: 21 Oct 2003 Location: China
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Posted: Thu Jul 01, 2010 1:24 pm Post subject: |
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Most BA degrees need additional education to be worth something. For instance, there are plenty of post-graduate diplomas that can lead to decent job streams.
I wouldn't count on getting a "good" job with a basic BA degree unless you graduated from an ivy league school (and even there you aren't guaranteed). |
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Druzyek
Joined: 02 Feb 2010
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Posted: Thu Jul 01, 2010 7:28 pm Post subject: |
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| My degree got me the job I have now. The owner of my Hagwon ran a business to get Korean students into American universities. She told me that she hired me because she had sent a lot of her clients to the university I graduated from. She thought I might be a good choice because I had probably gotten to know some Koreans already. She was right, the majority of the people I went to church with in college (and as a result hung out with) are Korean. So, my degree isn't worth nearly what the people back home let me think it would be before I went off to college but it did get me the job I have now. |
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pkang0202

Joined: 09 Mar 2007
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Posted: Thu Jul 01, 2010 7:58 pm Post subject: |
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| recessiontime wrote: |
| pkang0202 wrote: |
| Anyone who says a Bachelor's degree means nothing are the same people who wouldn't be caught dead omitting that they graduated from college on a job application. |
red herring.
The main argument the article makes is that the college degree is a bubble. It's just not worth what we thought it was and the cost isn't justifiable.
thanks for playing.  |
If the cost isn't justifiable then by that logic, its not worth it to get a college degree.
If college degree is a bubble then don't get a college degree.
If real estate is a bubble don't buy real estate.
The point of the article says that college degrees don't give as much Return as previously thought. That is a flawed argument to begin with.
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Schools that performed poorly in the PayScale analysis took issue with the methodology. Among the complaints: PayScale based the study on a small, self-selecting sample of alumni from each school�on average, about 1,000�and failed to consider financial aid, which would have reduced total college costs and improved ROI for all schools. One school that argued in favor of incorporating financial aid in the calculations was Philadelphia University, which had a 30-year net return on investment of $218,000. Using the school's average financial aid award and more recent graduation rate, the 30-year net ROI would be $276,000.
Other schools said the methodology also failed to account for the intangible benefits of a college education, including the benefits to society. "If monetary Return on Investment (ROI) were the main purpose of education, most of us would make different career decisions," wrote Pat Pike, interim provost and vice-provost for education at Biola University in LaMirada, Calif., in an e-mail. "Biola's education is not primarily about money. If you calculated the ROI [to] society of a Biola education, compared with the average, it would be huge. "
While private schools dominated the top of the list, public schools proved to be far better value overall, at least for in-state students. Because of the lower costs paid by in-state students�$82,301 compared with $126,933 for out-of-state students at public institutions and $170,219 for students at private schools�they enjoyed the best net annualized ROI: 9.7 percent. The worst deal: paying out-of-state tuition at a public university. Doing so results in an average annualized net ROI of 8.4 percent. Private schools yielded a net annualized return of 9.1 percent. |
Does the study use instate tuition or out of state?
The point is, Bachelor's degree IS worth it. You just gotta be smart about where you go to school and what your major is. Articles like this only encourage people NOT to go to college. |
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Fox

Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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Posted: Thu Jul 01, 2010 8:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| Other schools said the methodology also failed to account for the intangible benefits of a college education, including the benefits to society. |
I do think this is a somewhat good point. Looking at things from a purely economic perspective is all well and good, but there really is more to life than that. The humanities especially aren't necessarily going to provide you with a huge economic return, but can give you something entirely different. Whether or not you value that is your choice, but to just dismiss it out of hand is questionable. |
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Draz

Joined: 27 Jun 2007 Location: Land of Morning Clam
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Posted: Thu Jul 01, 2010 10:06 pm Post subject: |
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| DorkothyParker wrote: |
$40,000. At least that's what I PAID for mine. Why? Suppose I could have found it discounted elsewhere?  |
Mine was a steal at < $13,000 CAD. Oh, this article says it's not actually worth 1 million dollars?? Shame. |
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recessiontime

Joined: 21 Jun 2010 Location: Got avatar privileges nyahahaha
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Posted: Fri Jul 02, 2010 12:26 am Post subject: |
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| Fox wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Other schools said the methodology also failed to account for the intangible benefits of a college education, including the benefits to society. |
I do think this is a somewhat good point. Looking at things from a purely economic perspective is all well and good, but there really is more to life than that. The humanities especially aren't necessarily going to provide you with a huge economic return, but can give you something entirely different. Whether or not you value that is your choice, but to just dismiss it out of hand is questionable. |
I'm not sure what you are talking about. |
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Triban

Joined: 14 Jul 2009 Location: Suwon Station
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Posted: Fri Jul 02, 2010 1:16 am Post subject: |
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| Eyyyy yo I got cake like I married Betty Crockerrrrr. |
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Fox

Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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Posted: Fri Jul 02, 2010 1:19 am Post subject: |
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| recessiontime wrote: |
| Fox wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Other schools said the methodology also failed to account for the intangible benefits of a college education, including the benefits to society. |
I do think this is a somewhat good point. Looking at things from a purely economic perspective is all well and good, but there really is more to life than that. The humanities especially aren't necessarily going to provide you with a huge economic return, but can give you something entirely different. Whether or not you value that is your choice, but to just dismiss it out of hand is questionable. |
I'm not sure what you are talking about. |
That's a shame. |
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Moldy Rutabaga

Joined: 01 Jul 2003 Location: Ansan, Korea
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Posted: Fri Jul 02, 2010 5:53 am Post subject: |
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It's important to count not only the actual costs of tuition, books, and living expenses when attending university, but also the opportunity costs. While you spent six years in university, you were not making money working and gaining job skills.
An interesting aspect the article mentions is that a university degree benefits the country you live in, generally and in the long run, outside of any immediate benefit to you. Better educated people may be more productive or less likely to be problem citizens.
If I look purely at the numbers, I was foolish to spend so many years in university, all to train for a field in which the majority make a pittance, and where very many don't find work at all. At other times I remind myself that, yes, life is more than money, and I could have a well-paying job that I loathe getting up for.
I also try to give myself a break. Our world is changing in a way it hasn't changed since the printing press or the industrial revolution. There are not many safe jobs to train for nowadays, inside or outside of university. I won't make much money doing what I do, but that doesn't mean not going to university pays off well either. I could have saved all that tuition and just been a store clerk for forty years too, making peanuts. Some gambles are worth taking. |
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chellovek

Joined: 29 Feb 2008
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Posted: Fri Jul 02, 2010 9:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Fox wrote: |
| recessiontime wrote: |
| Fox wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Other schools said the methodology also failed to account for the intangible benefits of a college education, including the benefits to society. |
I do think this is a somewhat good point. Looking at things from a purely economic perspective is all well and good, but there really is more to life than that. The humanities especially aren't necessarily going to provide you with a huge economic return, but can give you something entirely different. Whether or not you value that is your choice, but to just dismiss it out of hand is questionable. |
I'm not sure what you are talking about. |
That's a shame. |
"That's a shame" +10.
I guess some people know the cost of everything but the value of nothing. |
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NYC_Gal

Joined: 08 Dec 2009
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Posted: Sat Jul 03, 2010 5:54 pm Post subject: |
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A BA today is like a high school diploma from 40 years ago. You need it, but it doesn't go as far as is used to. That's why many of us go on to get post graduate certs and degrees.
In NYC, one can hardly get a receptionist job without a BA. Most students there have to intern just to get a foot in the door. |
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chellovek

Joined: 29 Feb 2008
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Posted: Sat Jul 03, 2010 8:29 pm Post subject: |
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*pat pat* |
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recessiontime

Joined: 21 Jun 2010 Location: Got avatar privileges nyahahaha
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Posted: Sat Jul 03, 2010 8:52 pm Post subject: |
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| NYC_Gal wrote: |
A BA today is like a high school diploma from 40 years ago. You need it, but it doesn't go as far as is used to. That's why many of us go on to get post graduate certs and degrees.
In NYC, one can hardly get a receptionist job without a BA. Most students there have to intern just to get a foot in the door. |
So I guess you are saying we should incur the massive cost of college tuition so we can get the same low paying jobs high school graduates did back then. It just sounds like you are simply complicit in the devaluation of the BA. You also fail to take into account the 25% default rate for people that attend 4-yr colleges many of which have very pricey tuition.
Now read the stories from the people that say they their student loans have crushed their hopes and dreams.
http://studentloanjustice.org/California.htm
(that's just ONE State) |
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