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nukeday
Joined: 13 May 2010
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 Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2011 8:14 pm Post subject: |
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Where I come from, most fruit pickers are undocumented migrant workers. They're not on any legal contracts and definitely do not have visas, or perhaps even passports from their home countries. As a humanist, I believe the law should protect them, but in many cases it doesn't for fairly obvious reasons. They lack protections due to their illegal status.
We have legal status here.
Now, unless TheUrbanMyth took a boat to Korea, I'm not sure we are a good analogy to them. |
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NYC_Gal 2.0
Joined: 10 Dec 2010
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| Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2011 9:23 pm Post subject: |
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| nukeday wrote: |
Where I come from, most fruit pickers are undocumented migrant workers. They're not on any legal contracts and definitely do not have visas, or perhaps even passports from their home countries. As a humanist, I believe the law should protect them, but in many cases it doesn't for fairly obvious reasons. They lack protections due to their illegal status.
We have legal status here.
Now, unless TheUrbanMyth took a boat to Korea, I'm not sure we are a good analogy to them. |
Where I come from, yuppies pay to pick apples with their kids, then get donuts and drive home to make apple pie with their spoils 
I agree with you completely, though. I just wanted to be a wiseass. |
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willteachforfood
Joined: 24 Jan 2011
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| Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2011 10:01 pm Post subject: |
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I think that this whole migrant worker analogy is irrelevant....Korean bosses are crappy to their Korean employees as well.
All I am saying is this.....regardless of who the employee is, what country they are from, what their level of education is, what their chosen career is, and so on and so forth.....in Korea, your direct supervisor is FAR more likely to be a *beep* to you just because they can, than a direct supervisor in our home countries. No, UrbanMyth, I don't have any links to statistics that support my claim.
I am not talking about worker systems and corporations and all that jazz. In Korea, you often find ajoshi bosses who flex their K-muscle just because they can.....and this has NOTHING to do with the employees being foreign. Ask the average Korean who has ever tried to get more than 3 days off at a time of their allotted vacation time? Ask Koreans how many people they personally know who have ever had a job that shorted them on pay. I guarantee that there is a higher percentage of the Korean populace that has been all-out ripped off by their employer than in North America, Europe, or Australasia. |
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jrwhite82
Joined: 22 May 2010
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| Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2011 10:16 pm Post subject: |
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| So, what happened to the OP? Did he get his vacation? Is he sipping Mai Thais on the beach right now? |
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NYC_Gal 2.0
Joined: 10 Dec 2010
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| Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2011 10:20 pm Post subject: |
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| jrwhite82 wrote: |
| So, what happened to the OP? Did he get his vacation? Is he sipping Mai Thais on the beach right now? |
I hope so. |
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jrwhite82
Joined: 22 May 2010
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| Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2011 10:27 pm Post subject: |
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| willteachforfood wrote: |
I think that this whole migrant worker analogy is irrelevant....Korean bosses are crappy to their Korean employees as well.
All I am saying is this.....regardless of who the employee is, what country they are from, what their level of education is, what their chosen career is, and so on and so forth.....in Korea, your direct supervisor is FAR more likely to be a *beep* to you just because they can, than a direct supervisor in our home countries. No, UrbanMyth, I don't have any links to statistics that support my claim.
I am not talking about worker systems and corporations and all that jazz. In Korea, you often find ajoshi bosses who flex their K-muscle just because they can.....and this has NOTHING to do with the employees being foreign. Ask the average Korean who has ever tried to get more than 3 days off at a time of their allotted vacation time? Ask Koreans how many people they personally know who have ever had a job that shorted them on pay. I guarantee that there is a higher percentage of the Korean populace that has been all-out ripped off by their employer than in North America, Europe, or Australasia. |
Not sure where the K-muscle is on my bosses body...hopefully he never shows it to me!
But you make a good point. I think a lot of times we forget that working conditions here are just different than back home. It is not a Koreans vs NETs thing. It is an Employer vs Employee thing. One large difference is that we are not used to being treated in this way...whereas our Korean coworkers are. Some of them complain about it, must of them just brood in silence, accepting their fate after being squashed down by conformist pressure. I'd much rather be a NET in Korea than a Korean hagwon teacher. Public school teachers get some sweet perks...but we are not licensed teachers. So we compare to Korean contract teachers. Of which, we definetly have the sweeter deal as well. |
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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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| Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 5:13 am Post subject: |
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[quote="jrwhite82"]
| willteachforfood wrote: |
I think that this whole migrant worker analogy is irrelevant....Korean bosses are crappy to their Korean employees as well.
All I am saying is this.....regardless of who the employee is, what country they are from, what their level of education is, what their chosen career is, and so on and so forth.....in Korea, your direct supervisor is FAR more likely to be a *beep* to you just because they can, than a direct supervisor in our home countries. No, UrbanMyth, I don't have any links to statistics that support my claim.
I am not talking about worker systems and corporations and all that jazz. In Korea, you often find ajoshi bosses who flex their K-muscle just because they can.....and this has NOTHING to do with the employees being foreign. Ask the average Korean who has ever tried to get more than 3 days off at a time of their allotted vacation time? Ask Koreans how many people they personally know who have ever had a job that shorted them on pay. I guarantee that there is a higher percentage of the Korean populace that has been all-out ripped off by their employer than in North America, Europe, or Australasia. |
Not sure where the K-muscle is on my bosses body...hopefully he never shows it to me!
But you make a good point. I think a lot of times we forget that working conditions here are just different than back home. It is not a Koreans vs NETs thing. It is an Employer vs Employee thing. One large difference is that we are not used to being treated in this way...whereas our Korean coworkers are. Some of them complain about it, must of them just brood in silence, accepting their fate after being squashed down by conformist pressure. I'd much rather be a NET in Korea than a Korean hagwon teacher. Public school teachers get some sweet perks...but we are not licensed teachers. So we compare to Korean contract teachers. Of which, we definetly have the sweeter deal as well.[/quote]
Bolded part is right on target.
willteachforfood,
I think you need to work a few more western bosses.
It would be a real eye opener for you. While the tactics differ, they too "flex their muscle" and will do what they can to their employees. The fact they do so more indirectly is irrelevant, it still happens. I could provide a long list of examples if you wish, all based on people I know here in Canada who work for schools, companies and so on. |
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shifty
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
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| Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 8:27 am Post subject: |
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| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
| shifty wrote: |
| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
Korea was dirt poor a short 35 years ago. They have gone through a remarkable economic transformation in that short span of time.
This does not make one country worse than the other by the way. |
My personal feeling is that their old culture is strictly at odds with the nouveau riche frankenstein that is today.
Korea has always been xenophobic, impacting on their relations with foreign workers. Whereas the US is driven by supply and demand, Korea's wounded psyche and dysfunctional nationalism makes for a completely different dynamic. |
Interesting.
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Not remotely interesting. It's all old hat.
Unless you are being condescending. |
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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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| Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 9:05 am Post subject: |
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| shifty wrote: |
| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
| shifty wrote: |
| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
Korea was dirt poor a short 35 years ago. They have gone through a remarkable economic transformation in that short span of time.
This does not make one country worse than the other by the way. |
My personal feeling is that their old culture is strictly at odds with the nouveau riche frankenstein that is today.
Korea has always been xenophobic, impacting on their relations with foreign workers. Whereas the US is driven by supply and demand, Korea's wounded psyche and dysfunctional nationalism makes for a completely different dynamic. |
Interesting.
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Not remotely interesting. It's all old hat.
Unless you are being condescending. |
Paranoid much?
I did find what you wrote interesting. It was | | |
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