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Vagabundo
Joined: 26 Aug 2010
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 Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 1:55 am Post subject: |
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| I'm in my 30's, but will start getting into my late 30's in a couple of more years. |
this kind of deductive reasoning shouldn't be wasted on a career in ESL.
Ever thought of a more challenging career path?  |
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edwardcatflap
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 2:05 am Post subject: |
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| In terms of another curiosity, are there any type of teaching or training jobs requiring or paying extra for Korean language knowledge? I've been trying to slowly beef up my Korean language ability. |
I've never heard of any teaching or training jobs in TEFL like this, apart from places wanting gypos/bilinguals. I've known westerners who got jobs in companies or universities teaching other subjects with a good knowledge of Korean |
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Riker
Joined: 28 Dec 2010
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| Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 4:38 pm Post subject: |
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| edwardcatflap wrote: |
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I think with a good subject degree, the pedagogy and classroom management aspects can be learned on the job with a combination of self-study. And yes, I know that is controversial, but it is what I think.
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So you don't have a teaching qualification either but you think it's not necessary. Here's an idea. Why not actually do the qualification first before you decide how useful it is? Until then, how about just keeping an open mind? |
Your confusing "qualification" with "certification" again. A person who graduates with a BA in math, with a concentration in math (like me) has taken about twice as many math courses as an education major with a math track. I've seen the certification material and its BS filler / busy work.
Its no accident that every teachers union on the planet opposes competitive examinations for placement, yet somebody like me would have no problem with that at all. Extremely telling.
That is not to say I wont ever get certification out of absolute necessity, but I'm reluctant as I don't really like having to pay into a union, because that's all it is. |
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edwardcatflap
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 7:29 pm Post subject: |
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| a BA in maths is not a teaching qualification. It's a maths qualification. In the UK you do a BA like everyone else then do an extra year of methodology and teaching practice in schools to get your teaching qualification (PGCE) so afterwards you're much better qualified to teach your subject than someone with just a BA. Don't know how it works in North America |
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Riker
Joined: 28 Dec 2010
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| Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 7:38 pm Post subject: |
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If your certification program works anything like the states, then you would become "certified" not more "qualified".
Most US teachers get an education degree with a certain concentration, unless they are doing elementary. Its a mix of education classes with their core curriculum + concentration area.
Each state has its own requirements for certification, and most allow alternative certification through cheaper programs.
My problem with certification is that it amounts to red tape and excess expense at absolutely no benefit to the student ( I would actually argue it harms education, and evidence would show I'm correct )
Last edited by Riker on Thu Feb 24, 2011 7:42 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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edwardcatflap
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 7:41 pm Post subject: |
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| We say 'qualified teacher' . 'Certified' has connotations - as in 'certified nutter'. |
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Riker
Joined: 28 Dec 2010
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| Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 7:45 pm Post subject: |
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Ok fair enough. Colloquially speaking here, qualified can mean both having the ability/ education, whereas certified means some agency has given you an approval.
Certification here has become nothing more than a right to join teachers unions rather than suggesting skill or talent in teaching. |
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happiness
Joined: 04 Sep 2010
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| Posted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 3:32 am Post subject: |
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| Weigookin74 wrote: |
| In terms of another curiosity, are there any type of teaching or training jobs requiring or paying extra for Korean language knowledge? I've been trying to slowly beef up my Korean language ability. |
basically all of my jobs ive gotten because of my korean abilities, i also have a decent resume, and alot of korean references..it doesnt hurt one bit.
but yes, i was looking for a new position, and I had a great intv, but of course, I wanted too much money (2.2-2.3) and pesky me, i asked about insurance...needless to say they didnt want me, they got someone who wouldnt know or complain too much....so i do think alot of times, they think it is ok just to have a young, but more importantly CHEAP person to do the job.
and now the market is flooded. I cant believe how many westerners are walking around the town nowadays... |
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olsanairbase
Joined: 30 Aug 2010
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| Posted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 3:02 pm Post subject: |
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| ttompatz wrote: |
seriously....
If you are over 40 and NEW to the ESL game (mid life career change for whatever reason) and have NO experience in the classroom then you ARE under the gun.
What can you do?
IF you like working with kids there are lots of things you can do.
Volunteer to work with kids at home and get LOTS of pics doing it.
A school will always take someone who is experienced and FUN for the kids (pedagogy has nothing to do with teaching in Korea). Help out at a scout camp. Spend some time at the Y helping kids - there are lots of ways and remember to include some in your application package.
IF you want to work in a university you need to get some experience and be IN KOREA at your expense for the first kick at the cat.
If you want to work with adults / university age students in an academy setting then be prepared for UGLY split shifts and perhaps include a demo lesson or link to one that you have uploaded to some place like youtube for your prospective employers to see.
It DOES make a world of difference if they can see that you are:
a) good and fun for the kids
or
b) knowledgeable and able to deliver in a classroom setting (and still be "NOT boring") - all ages
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c) good for business in an academy setting (chalk 'n talk don't cut it).
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Why anyone who is over 40 would want to go into teaching is beyond me. Teaching is quickly becoming a turnstile job. Long gone are any remnants that it was a career to teach. Working at a university is completely different story. Most people who make career changes in their 40's look for careers that are not so energy demanding as is teaching where you are on your feet all day. Most people who stay teaching today beyond their 40's are doing so to max out the level of their final longevity pay not because they love teaching.
And the below is not deductive reasoning. Sorry Aristotle.
| Vagabundo wrote: |
| Quote: |
| I'm in my 30's, but will start getting into my late 30's in a couple of more years. |
this kind of deductive reasoning shouldn't be wasted on a career in ESL.
Ever thought of a more challenging career path? |
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clewis
Joined: 29 Dec 2010
Location: Anyang, South Korea
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| Posted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 4:02 pm Post subject: |
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| olsanairbase wrote: |
Why anyone who is over 40 would want to go into teaching is beyond me. Teaching is quickly becoming a turnstile job. Long gone are any remnants that it was a career to teach. Working at a university is completely different story. Most people who make career changes in their 40's look for careers that are not so energy demanding as is teaching where you are on your feet all day. Most people who stay teaching today beyond their 40's are doing so to max out the level of their final longevity pay not because they love teaching.
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Well it isn't that complicated. Some of us in our 40's (I am 40 on the dot) have already done a career and raised a family and now want to see the world and immerse themselves in another culture and have enough income to continue to pay off bills that you seem to accumulate by 40. 
Teaching can be an ideal job in this circumstance if you are social person and have learned over the years to jump in with both feet and hit the ground running which is what changing careers at this point in your life is doing.
I am leaving a job at Microsoft to make this complete and total change and have zero regrets. I will post back here in a year to say if I still have those zero regrets |
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silkhighway
Joined: 24 Oct 2010
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 4:56 pm Post subject: |
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Regarding "certification" versus "qualification",: personally, I think, yes, early childhood and primary education specialty training matters a lot. However, middle-school and onwards it matters less and less and field expertise starts to matter a lot more. A degree in education to me isn't a *real* degree and my opinion of CELTA/Trinity is even less.
A B.Ed is just a diploma. It's a space to meet likeminded people and bounce ideas off of them in a comfortable setting before they enter the real world and don't have time for that kind of thing. |
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silkhighway
Joined: 24 Oct 2010
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 4:59 pm Post subject: |
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| olsanairbase wrote: |
Why anyone who is over 40 would want to go into teaching is beyond me. Teaching is quickly becoming a turnstile job. Long gone are any remnants that it was a career to teach. Working at a university is completely different story. Most people who make career changes in their 40's look for careers that are not so energy demanding as is teaching where you are on your feet all day. Most people who stay teaching today beyond their 40's are doing so to max out the level of their final longevity pay not because they love teaching.
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Are you speaking in Korea or in general? A lot of people in Korea seem to have a perception that teaching at a university level is prestigious, and that's just not the case. Most lecturers (not tenured profs) make a very basic living doing it, or they do it as part of their graduate studies package. You do NOT get tenured at a university based on your teaching experience, you get it based on your research. It's apples and oranges. |
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edwardcatflap
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 5:48 pm Post subject: |
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A degree in education to me isn't a *real* degree and my opinion of CELTA/Trinity is even less.
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A CELTA is only a month long course on the basics of TEFL but I tutor on them, so I'd be genuinely interested in your more detailed opinions on it. |
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silkhighway
Joined: 24 Oct 2010
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 6:18 pm Post subject: |
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| edwardcatflap wrote: |
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A degree in education to me isn't a *real* degree and my opinion of CELTA/Trinity is even less.
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A CELTA is only a month long course on the basics of TEFL but I tutor on them, so I'd be genuinely interested in your more detailed opinions on it. |
It's not that I think a program like CELTA is bad, it's not, or more to the point I'm not in a position to say that it's bad. My problem with it is that it's not a heuristic program and I don't think non-heuristic education is a worthwhile investment for people who are educated at a university level. If there are true value in these courses, then employers should provide them or at least offer serious incentive to take them. In Korea, for example, there seems to be a token preference for people with CELTA or the like but with no real connection how the program connects to what Koreans are trying to accomplish.
Bringing it around to a B.Ed., I think the true value of a B.Ed. (despite really being a diploma in my mind) is that it teaches you to teach an age level, not a subject matter. And at least where I live, it's tailored quite specifically towards the needs of the local public education system. |
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calicoe
Joined: 23 Dec 2008
Location: South Korea
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| Posted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 7:18 pm Post subject: |
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| olsanairbase wrote: |
Why anyone who is over 40 would want to go into teaching is beyond me. Teaching is quickly becoming a turnstile job. Long gone are any remnants that it was a career to teach.
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Most people over 40 have had other jobs, other careers and a lifetime of experience behind them. But, some are still in really good shape, and have plenty of energy, but may be burnt out on their previous professions. Also, this "turnstile" job situation affects just about every profession these days, as many are becoming economic refugees in the final massive shift to a flexible labor economy. So, yes, the one thing I agree with is that it most probably is "beyond" your comprehension. |
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