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Space Bar
Joined: 20 Oct 2010
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 Posted: Sun Apr 03, 2011 7:34 am Post subject: |
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| ZIFA wrote: |
| visitorq wrote: |
| Not sure whether I'd call them morons or not, but definitely criminally negligent. |
Nice Op-ed here if u have time..:
Unlearned lessons from Chernobyl and Fukushima
LA Times April 3
Do we collectively care about our planet, our home, this Earth, or don't we? When the economic bottom line rules decision-making, losses elsewhere can be staggering. |
Nice article. Thanks for that.
Now you still think it is not time to panic? |
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ZIFA
Joined: 23 Feb 2011
Location: Dici che il fiume..Trova la via al mare
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| Posted: Sun Apr 03, 2011 10:28 am Post subject: |
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| Space Bar wrote: |
| Now you still think it is not time to panic? |
..really fascinating to study what has happened to the chernobyl area.
Its too simplistic however to say that wildlife has thrived. A better way of putting it is that the lucky survivors are ok, while the many victims have not.
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Mutant die-off
How has this happened, given that radiation levels are still too high for humans to return safely? Morris thinks that many of the organisms mutated by the fallout have died, leaving behind those that have not suffered problems with growth and reproduction.
"It's evolution on steroids. There are a lot of deleterious mutations in species but these seem to be very quickly weeded out," Morris explains. Many young fish living in the reactor's cooling ponds are deformed, but adults tend to be healthy, implying that those harmed by radiation die young.
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http://www.nature.com/news/2005/050808/full/news050808-4.html
In other words...the 99 out of chernobyls' baby fish that are born with 3 heads do not survive, but the one that is lucky enough to be normal gets to have all the fishfood for himself.
Not exactly a "healthy" ecosystem.
Similarly..if you are not squeamish...a simple googlesearch brings up hundreds of pictures of deformed people and babies from the chernobyl region. Its horrific. |
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Space Bar
Joined: 20 Oct 2010
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visitorq
Joined: 11 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 6:47 pm Post subject: |
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I've just stopped listening to all the millisievert nonsense altogether. It only really matters in the case of isotopes with short half-lives like I-131. But we already know at the bare minimum that there's radioactive Cesium all over the place for miles and miles, and in the water supply. Bottom line, this will not disappear in our lifetime. It ends up in the food and water supply. A few particles may only pose a few negligible micro-sieverts or whatever in terms of background radiation, but when ingested it will increase cancer and birth defect rates.
More and more radioactive isotopes keep spewing out even now, with no end in sight (they're now admittedly dumping the radioactive water directly into the ocean). It has already effected Tokyo, but perhaps to a greater extent than has been reported (they feed us the bad news slowly). Regardless, they've admitted it will probably take months at the minimum to even get the situation under control. The effect on economic confidence will hit a tipping point very soon, and this will be very difficult, if not impossible, to reverse.
The surreal feeling is now being displaced with the very depressing realization that Japan is now basically a radiation contaminated country. The world is now sympathetic, but once that wears off, Japan's reputation will be permanently stained. Japan may never fully recover from this. This is a profound world tragedy, which is still playing out as we speak. As far as I'm concerned, it's worse than Chernobyl. |
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visitorq
Joined: 11 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 9:11 pm Post subject: |
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Just watched on NHK that radiation level in the ocean around the daiichi plant is now 7.5 million times the 'safe' level. So much for eating anymore Japanese marine produce this century. Yet another gaping hole punched into the economy and untold numbers of people about to lose their livelihoods... This is just such an unbelievable cluster#$%...
EDIT: The Iodine-131 was at 7.5 million times the safe level; but the radioactive Cesium levels were also in excess of 1 million times the safe level. Which means the marine life will be contaminated for longer than any of us will be alive. They don't even mention the levels of Uranium and Plutonium (which are almost certainly present in the water they're dumping, since they've already been found in soil samples near the plant). |
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Space Bar
Joined: 20 Oct 2010
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| Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2011 7:37 am Post subject: |
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| visitorq wrote: |
I've just stopped listening to all the millisievert nonsense altogether. It only really matters in the case of isotopes with short half-lives like I-131. But we already know at the bare minimum that there's radioactive Cesium all over the place for miles and miles, and in the water supply. Bottom line, this will not disappear in our lifetime. It ends up in the food and water supply. A few particles may only pose a few negligible micro-sieverts or whatever in terms of background radiation, but when ingested it will increase cancer and birth defect rates.
More and more radioactive isotopes keep spewing out even now, with no end in sight (they're now admittedly dumping the radioactive water directly into the ocean). It has already effected Tokyo, but perhaps to a greater extent than has been reported (they feed us the bad news slowly). Regardless, they've admitted it will probably take months at the minimum to even get the situation under control. The effect on economic confidence will hit a tipping point very soon, and this will be very difficult, if not impossible, to reverse.
The surreal feeling is now being displaced with the very depressing realization that Japan is now basically a radiation contaminated country. The world is now sympathetic, but once that wears off, Japan's reputation will be permanently stained. Japan may never fully recover from this. This is a profound world tragedy, which is still playing out as we speak. As far as I'm concerned, it's worse than Chernobyl. |
I don't wanna say "I told you so," but after having nukes dropped on them, how did they ever agree to nuclear power? I always thought that was ironically bizarre.
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ZIFA
Joined: 23 Feb 2011
Location: Dici che il fiume..Trova la via al mare
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| Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2011 7:41 am Post subject: |
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| visitorq wrote: |
| Just watched on NHK that radiation level in the ocean around the daiichi plant is now 7.5 million times the 'safe' level. So much for eating anymore Japanese marine produce this century. |
Chernobyl burned for 9 days.
Fukushima has been spewing comparable levels of radiation for 23 days now.
Yet people seem less worried because most of it is going into the sea?
| Quote: |
| Austrian researchers have used a worldwide network of radiation detectors � designed to spot clandestine nuclear bomb tests � to show that iodine-131 is being released at daily levels 73 per cent of those seen after the 1986 disaster. |
http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn20285-fukushima-radioactive-fallout-nears-chernobyl-levels.html
And there is still no end to this in sight. Weeks? months? of cesium entering the air and water? |
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Space Bar
Joined: 20 Oct 2010
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| Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2011 7:56 am Post subject: |
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Nice to see you have finally gotten around to reading my link from page 18 of this thread (and reposting it). Of course back then, I was not credible and just ridiculously exaggerating, right? Nice to see you coming around anyway.
So are you still standing by this?
| ZIFA wrote: |
| Space Bar wrote: |
| And how do the articles not say what I say they say if I am quoting them verbatim?? |
Do you know the differences between imagined/projected/ hypothetical situations, and real/ curent situations?
| Quote: |
| ZIFA has more credibility than CCNY Professor of Nuclear Physics Dr. Michio Kaku???? |
There are not 3 meltdowns underway. A partial meltdown ocurred in one of the reactors (no.2), and the situation has been brought under control. That is to say the meltdown has been halted (although the leak has not).
take a close look at what Kaku says:
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| If you abandon efforts to cool the fuel rods, then an accelerated meltdown is "inevitable," says Dr. Kaku |
Note the word "IF".
http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/video/japans-deteriorating-nuclear-reactors-13164457
So there is really no validity to your gigantic pink-flourescent font claims that "three reactors are in raging meltdown" or "Japanese give up the fight" or "Tepco concedes they will entomb it in concrete" or "radiocative core melts through radioactive vessel".
All of that is bollocks.
In addition "fukushima beyond point of no return" is the private opinion of some blogger. His opinions lose further credibility when he later he says "Japan's nuclear disaster preparedness plans were written by complete morons" or talks of "One especially idiotic journalist in the UK".
your hysterical claims are..as ever, ridiculous exaggeration. |
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Space Bar
Joined: 20 Oct 2010
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| Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2011 8:28 am Post subject: |
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From 1999-2010, Greenpeace and Japanese anti-nuke activists fought against unloading plutonium at Fukushima. Unfortunately, a court allowed it to go ahead in 2010. Had they begun instead in 1999, there would have been TONS of plutonium spewing all over the place instead of the relatively small, though still extremely harmful, amount now.
Watch the video.
How Activists Prevented a Much Worse Disaster in Japan
How anti-nuclear activists, local people, and GreenPeace stopped TEPCO from using MOX plutonium fuel in the Fukushima reactor, from 1999... until 10 months before the meltdown
The video below, shows that ordinary people can, and must, do extra ordinary things, to prevent man-made disasters from occurring.
These things happen because of the inactions of the many, with the profit-motivated irresponsible actions of the few, yet people don't need to lead a life of apathy followed by misery and ultimately suicide.
Do something great with your life. Join an organisation like GreenPeace, or network with people around you, locally and globally. Find actions that need doing, and encourage yourself and others to become involved in saving the planet. You can have much fun while doing it, as well as adventure, make great friends, and live life more like it was meant to be.
compelling video at link |
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