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Huge Earthquake in Japan
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Space Bar



Joined: 20 Oct 2010

PostPosted: Sun Apr 03, 2011 7:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ZIFA wrote:
visitorq wrote:
Not sure whether I'd call them morons or not, but definitely criminally negligent.


Nice Op-ed here if u have time..:

Unlearned lessons from Chernobyl and Fukushima
LA Times April 3
Do we collectively care about our planet, our home, this Earth, or don't we? When the economic bottom line rules decision-making, losses elsewhere can be staggering.

Nice article. Thanks for that.

Now you still think it is not time to panic?
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ZIFA



Joined: 23 Feb 2011
Location: Dici che il fiume..Trova la via al mare

PostPosted: Sun Apr 03, 2011 10:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Space Bar wrote:
Now you still think it is not time to panic?


..really fascinating to study what has happened to the chernobyl area.

Its too simplistic however to say that wildlife has thrived. A better way of putting it is that the lucky survivors are ok, while the many victims have not.

Quote:
Mutant die-off
How has this happened, given that radiation levels are still too high for humans to return safely? Morris thinks that many of the organisms mutated by the fallout have died, leaving behind those that have not suffered problems with growth and reproduction.

"It's evolution on steroids. There are a lot of deleterious mutations in species but these seem to be very quickly weeded out," Morris explains. Many young fish living in the reactor's cooling ponds are deformed, but adults tend to be healthy, implying that those harmed by radiation die young.

http://www.nature.com/news/2005/050808/full/news050808-4.html

In other words...the 99 out of chernobyls' baby fish that are born with 3 heads do not survive, but the one that is lucky enough to be normal gets to have all the fishfood for himself.

Not exactly a "healthy" ecosystem.

Similarly..if you are not squeamish...a simple googlesearch brings up hundreds of pictures of deformed people and babies from the chernobyl region. Its horrific.
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Space Bar



Joined: 20 Oct 2010

PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 6:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mainstream media journalists flunk high school physics when reporting on radiation
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visitorq



Joined: 11 Jan 2008

PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 6:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've just stopped listening to all the millisievert nonsense altogether. It only really matters in the case of isotopes with short half-lives like I-131. But we already know at the bare minimum that there's radioactive Cesium all over the place for miles and miles, and in the water supply. Bottom line, this will not disappear in our lifetime. It ends up in the food and water supply. A few particles may only pose a few negligible micro-sieverts or whatever in terms of background radiation, but when ingested it will increase cancer and birth defect rates.

More and more radioactive isotopes keep spewing out even now, with no end in sight (they're now admittedly dumping the radioactive water directly into the ocean). It has already effected Tokyo, but perhaps to a greater extent than has been reported (they feed us the bad news slowly). Regardless, they've admitted it will probably take months at the minimum to even get the situation under control. The effect on economic confidence will hit a tipping point very soon, and this will be very difficult, if not impossible, to reverse.

The surreal feeling is now being displaced with the very depressing realization that Japan is now basically a radiation contaminated country. The world is now sympathetic, but once that wears off, Japan's reputation will be permanently stained. Japan may never fully recover from this. This is a profound world tragedy, which is still playing out as we speak. As far as I'm concerned, it's worse than Chernobyl.
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visitorq



Joined: 11 Jan 2008

PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 9:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just watched on NHK that radiation level in the ocean around the daiichi plant is now 7.5 million times the 'safe' level. So much for eating anymore Japanese marine produce this century. Yet another gaping hole punched into the economy and untold numbers of people about to lose their livelihoods... This is just such an unbelievable cluster#$%...

EDIT: The Iodine-131 was at 7.5 million times the safe level; but the radioactive Cesium levels were also in excess of 1 million times the safe level. Which means the marine life will be contaminated for longer than any of us will be alive. They don't even mention the levels of Uranium and Plutonium (which are almost certainly present in the water they're dumping, since they've already been found in soil samples near the plant).
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Space Bar



Joined: 20 Oct 2010

PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2011 7:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

visitorq wrote:
I've just stopped listening to all the millisievert nonsense altogether. It only really matters in the case of isotopes with short half-lives like I-131. But we already know at the bare minimum that there's radioactive Cesium all over the place for miles and miles, and in the water supply. Bottom line, this will not disappear in our lifetime. It ends up in the food and water supply. A few particles may only pose a few negligible micro-sieverts or whatever in terms of background radiation, but when ingested it will increase cancer and birth defect rates.

More and more radioactive isotopes keep spewing out even now, with no end in sight (they're now admittedly dumping the radioactive water directly into the ocean). It has already effected Tokyo, but perhaps to a greater extent than has been reported (they feed us the bad news slowly). Regardless, they've admitted it will probably take months at the minimum to even get the situation under control. The effect on economic confidence will hit a tipping point very soon, and this will be very difficult, if not impossible, to reverse.

The surreal feeling is now being displaced with the very depressing realization that Japan is now basically a radiation contaminated country. The world is now sympathetic, but once that wears off, Japan's reputation will be permanently stained. Japan may never fully recover from this. This is a profound world tragedy, which is still playing out as we speak. As far as I'm concerned, it's worse than Chernobyl.

Crying or Very sad
I don't wanna say "I told you so," but after having nukes dropped on them, how did they ever agree to nuclear power? I always thought that was ironically bizarre.
Crying or Very sad
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ZIFA



Joined: 23 Feb 2011
Location: Dici che il fiume..Trova la via al mare

PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2011 7:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

visitorq wrote:
Just watched on NHK that radiation level in the ocean around the daiichi plant is now 7.5 million times the 'safe' level. So much for eating anymore Japanese marine produce this century.


Chernobyl burned for 9 days.
Fukushima has been spewing comparable levels of radiation for 23 days now.

Yet people seem less worried because most of it is going into the sea?

Quote:
Austrian researchers have used a worldwide network of radiation detectors � designed to spot clandestine nuclear bomb tests � to show that iodine-131 is being released at daily levels 73 per cent of those seen after the 1986 disaster.

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn20285-fukushima-radioactive-fallout-nears-chernobyl-levels.html

And there is still no end to this in sight. Weeks? months? of cesium entering the air and water?
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Space Bar



Joined: 20 Oct 2010

PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2011 7:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice to see you have finally gotten around to reading my link from page 18 of this thread (and reposting it). Of course back then, I was not credible and just ridiculously exaggerating, right? Nice to see you coming around anyway.

So are you still standing by this?
ZIFA wrote:
Space Bar wrote:
And how do the articles not say what I say they say if I am quoting them verbatim??


Do you know the differences between imagined/projected/ hypothetical situations, and real/ curent situations?

Quote:
ZIFA has more credibility than CCNY Professor of Nuclear Physics Dr. Michio Kaku????


There are not 3 meltdowns underway. A partial meltdown ocurred in one of the reactors (no.2), and the situation has been brought under control. That is to say the meltdown has been halted (although the leak has not).
take a close look at what Kaku says:
Quote:
If you abandon efforts to cool the fuel rods, then an accelerated meltdown is "inevitable," says Dr. Kaku

Note the word "IF".
http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/video/japans-deteriorating-nuclear-reactors-13164457

So there is really no validity to your gigantic pink-flourescent font claims that "three reactors are in raging meltdown" or "Japanese give up the fight" or "Tepco concedes they will entomb it in concrete" or "radiocative core melts through radioactive vessel".

All of that is bollocks.

In addition "fukushima beyond point of no return" is the private opinion of some blogger. His opinions lose further credibility when he later he says "Japan's nuclear disaster preparedness plans were written by complete morons" or talks of "One especially idiotic journalist in the UK".


your hysterical claims are..as ever, ridiculous exaggeration.
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Space Bar



Joined: 20 Oct 2010

PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2011 8:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

From 1999-2010, Greenpeace and Japanese anti-nuke activists fought against unloading plutonium at Fukushima. Unfortunately, a court allowed it to go ahead in 2010. Had they begun instead in 1999, there would have been TONS of plutonium spewing all over the place instead of the relatively small, though still extremely harmful, amount now.

Watch the video.


How Activists Prevented a Much Worse Disaster in Japan

How anti-nuclear activists, local people, and GreenPeace stopped TEPCO from using MOX plutonium fuel in the Fukushima reactor, from 1999... until 10 months before the meltdown


The video below, shows that ordinary people can, and must, do extra ordinary things, to prevent man-made disasters from occurring.

These things happen because of the inactions of the many, with the profit-motivated irresponsible actions of the few, yet people don't need to lead a life of apathy followed by misery and ultimately suicide.

Do something great with your life. Join an organisation like GreenPeace, or network with people around you, locally and globally. Find actions that need doing, and encourage yourself and others to become involved in saving the planet. You can have much fun while doing it, as well as adventure, make great friends, and live life more like it was meant to be.

compelling video at link
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ZIFA



Joined: 23 Feb 2011
Location: Dici che il fiume..Trova la via al mare

PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2011 9:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Space Bar wrote:
Nice to see you have finally gotten around to reading my link from page 18 of this thread (and reposting it). Of course back then, I was not credible and just ridiculously exaggerating, right? Nice to see you coming around anyway.


sensational exaggeration is your middle name, bacasper.

What I was referring to pages ago.. was the following. Sorry but..

There have not been "three raging meltdowns"
Spent fuel has not burned through the containment vessel
Japan has not "given up" the fight
Fukushima has not passed the "point of no return"
Tepco has not thrown in the towel and determined to drop a gigantic blob of cement on the whole scene.


I never criticised the new scientist article. I never even mentioned it in my former post. It was the other stuff I was dismissing.
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TL



Joined: 30 Mar 2008

PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2011 2:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Radiation Scare Prompts South Korea Salt Shortage
Quote:
Buyers say they want to stock up ahead of possible contamination from radiation in Japan. Others are under the impression that ingesting it offers protection from radioactive iodine.

South Koreans have gone on a salt buying binge. That has prompted the price of salt to nearly double since this time a year ago.

Some are calling it an irrational reaction to the nuclear power plant accident in Japan.

Quote:
Scientists and authorities express skepticism about such reactions from consumers. They note that radiation, except for the immediate areas surrounding the Fukushima, Japan nuclear facility, is not likely to register at any level of concern to human health. They also say ingesting salt will not protect against radioactive iodine fallout.

http://www.voanews.com/english/news/Salt-Shortage-in-South-Korea-Prompted-by-Radiation-Scare-119241654.html

I hope the amount of radiation coming from Japan remains insignificant in the next few weeks.
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ZIFA



Joined: 23 Feb 2011
Location: Dici che il fiume..Trova la via al mare

PostPosted: Wed Apr 06, 2011 3:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

visitorq wrote:
we already know at the bare minimum that there's radioactive Cesium all over the place for miles and miles.


...but did it get blown out by the hydrogen blasts?
Or is it a result of steam gradually bubbling off the reactors?

I might be on the wrong track, but it seems that nobody has accounted for all the spent fuel rods that were supposedly stored in the roof (prior to the roof being blown off).
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Space Bar



Joined: 20 Oct 2010

PostPosted: Wed Apr 06, 2011 5:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ZIFA wrote:
Space Bar wrote:
Nice to see you have finally gotten around to reading my link from page 18 of this thread (and reposting it). Of course back then, I was not credible and just ridiculously exaggerating, right? Nice to see you coming around anyway.


sensational exaggeration is your middle name, bacasper.

What I was referring to pages ago.. was the following. Sorry but..

There have not been "three raging meltdowns"
Spent fuel has not burned through the containment vessel
Japan has not "given up" the fight
Fukushima has not passed the "point of no return"
Tepco has not thrown in the towel and determined to drop a gigantic blob of cement on the whole scene.


I never criticised the new scientist article. I never even mentioned it in my former post. It was the other stuff I was dismissing.

You are essentially agreeing with me now that this is worse than Chernobyl, yet I am ridiculously exaggerating and you are not. Rolling Eyes
OK... Or am I only ridiculously exaggerating when I post articles you don't agree with?
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Space Bar



Joined: 20 Oct 2010

PostPosted: Wed Apr 06, 2011 6:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some more ridiculous exaggeration...this time from Reuters.

India bans Japan food imports, says radiation spreading

By Ratnajyoti Dutta | Reuters � Tue, 5 Apr, 2011 9:23 AM EDT

NEW DELHI (Reuters) - India has imposed a three-month ban on imports of food articles from the whole of Japan on fears that radiation from an earthquake-hit nuclear plant was spreading to other parts of the country, becoming the first country to introduce a blanket ban.

The ban comes in the fourth week of unsuccessful attempts to safely secure the Fukushima nuclear power plant in central Japan crippled by an earthquake and tsunami in what could be the world's biggest nuclear disaster in a quarter of a century.

...

"After detailed discussions, it was concluded that since the radiation is spreading/expanding horizontally in other parts of Japan, it may result in further radioactive contamination in the supply chain of food exports from Japan," the statement added.

...

Japan said on Tuesday it was considering imposing radioactivity restrictions on seafood after contaminated fish were found in seas well south of the damaged nuclear reactors.

A number of countries have imposed bans on dairy products, meat, fish and other produce from areas near the crippled nuclear power plant. Many others are monitoring radiation levels in goods imported from Japan.
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visitorq



Joined: 11 Jan 2008

PostPosted: Wed Apr 06, 2011 7:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ZIFA wrote:
visitorq wrote:
we already know at the bare minimum that there's radioactive Cesium all over the place for miles and miles.


...but did it get blown out by the hydrogen blasts?
Or is it a result of steam gradually bubbling off the reactors?

I might be on the wrong track, but it seems that nobody has accounted for all the spent fuel rods that were supposedly stored in the roof (prior to the roof being blown off).

Yeah, it's still a bit of a mystery since no clear photos have been yet shown. However, it seems that the spent fuel rod pool at #3 was not in fact blown to kingdom come (ie. pulverized into the air) since they were spraying it through the roof and steam has been coming out. However, it was probably damaged and the water probably leaked out of the pool at the very least. Last I watched they've got over 50,000 tons of "highly" radioactive water they need to pump out into external storage tanks (which is why they've been dumping around 30,000 tons of "less" radioactive water into the ocean to free up that space). No doubt much of that "highly" radioactive water is what leaked from the spent fuel rod pools which were damaged in the explosions.

Of course the other (worst case) possibility is that #3 pool was blown up completely (along with the spent rods), and that the water they were spraying was directed at the damaged reactor core itself (spewing out extreme Chernobyl-level radiation the whole while)... but I'd prefer not to imagine that one.

Latest news on NHK is they're planning to shoot a bunch of Nitrogen into the #1 reactor, which is supposedly on the brink of yet another hydrogen explosion... there really is no end in sight.
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