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ChrisLamp
Joined: 27 Jul 2010
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 Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 5:51 am Post subject: Trust issues. |
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Today I kicked a kid out of my class because after telling numerous times to play the games by the rules he mocked me to my face in front of the other children. (that "uuuuh uhhh" kinda sneering mocking tone). this boy is a constant disruption and the boss knows about his behaviour problems.
Anyway, about a minute after I kick him out the boss is in my class, saying the kid is telling a different story, the exact opposite story. Apparently I had been mocking him. Fine, I step into the hall and explain the situation to the boss. This is the part where he calls the kid on his lie, right? Wrong. He goes into the class and asks the other kids what went on. He knows I don't understand korean, but I was 100% able to follow the exchange. He asked the kids who was mocking who and they tell him it was the kid, not me.
So the boss tells me he's figured out that the kid is lying (no shit) and that he'll be removed for the rest of the class (ok.)
I walked away form the whole thing feeling like shit. My boss has no reason not to trust me, but more importantly, I have no reason to lie about this kid's behaviour! What would I gain from this?
I really wanted to confront my boss. "Why don't you take me at my word?" etc. If this was my first couple of months here I would have, but I've got less than 100 days left here, I figure it's not worth the fight. Also I'm getting pretty used to things in Korea not making sense. But *beep*, it still burns. Trust the word of a fucking ten year old over your employee? I feel like maybe it's cultural. Like he automatically will trust a Korean over a waygook. |
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litebear
Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Holland
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| Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 6:10 am Post subject: |
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| Aye man, that stings. I had a friend who actually came pretty close to losing his job after a student accused him of flippin' the bird. Thankfully in the end another student in the class came forward and told the head teacher privately it was total BS. |
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thegadfly
Joined: 01 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 8:29 am Post subject: Re: Trust issues. |
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| ChrisLamp wrote: |
Today I kicked a kid out of my class because after telling numerous times to play the games by the rules he mocked me to my face in front of the other children. (that "uuuuh uhhh" kinda sneering mocking tone). this boy is a constant disruption and the boss knows about his behaviour problems.
Anyway, about a minute after I kick him out the boss is in my class, saying the kid is telling a different story, the exact opposite story. Apparently I had been mocking him. Fine, I step into the hall and explain the situation to the boss. This is the part where he calls the kid on his lie, right? Wrong. He goes into the class and asks the other kids what went on. He knows I don't understand korean, but I was 100% able to follow the exchange. He asked the kids who was mocking who and they tell him it was the kid, not me.
So the boss tells me he's figured out that the kid is lying (no shit) and that he'll be removed for the rest of the class (ok.)
I walked away form the whole thing feeling like shit. My boss has no reason not to trust me, but more importantly, I have no reason to lie about this kid's behaviour! What would I gain from this?
I really wanted to confront my boss. "Why don't you take me at my word?" etc. If this was my first couple of months here I would have, but I've got less than 100 days left here, I figure it's not worth the fight. Also I'm getting pretty used to things in Korea not making sense. But *beep*, it still burns. Trust the word of a fucking ten year old over your employee? I feel like maybe it's cultural. Like he automatically will trust a Korean over a waygook. |
Wrong -- not cultural at all -- it is your boss being a tool. I had a very similar situation happen to me in the US -- kicked a kid out of class for swearing (the f-bomb, no less!), and had the principal bring the kid right back to class, telling me that the kid said he didn't say it...and sure enough, the principal polled the class to see if anyone else heard him say it.... As the kid I kicked out was also a bully, no one in the class would speak against him...and so the kid got put back in his seat....
It sucks, but it isn't a cultural thing. It is just that your boss is a tool -- happens everywhere, and it sucks everywhere that it happens.... |
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ontheway
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere under the rainbow...
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| Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 8:39 am Post subject: Re: Trust issues. |
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| ChrisLamp wrote: |
Today I kicked a kid out of my class because after telling numerous times to play the games by the rules he mocked me to my face in front of the other children. (that "uuuuh uhhh" kinda sneering mocking tone). this boy is a constant disruption and the boss knows about his behaviour problems.
Anyway, about a minute after I kick him out the boss is in my class, saying the kid is telling a different story, the exact opposite story. Apparently I had been mocking him. Fine, I step into the hall and explain the situation to the boss. This is the part where he calls the kid on his lie, right? Wrong. He goes into the class and asks the other kids what went on. He knows I don't understand korean, but I was 100% able to follow the exchange. He asked the kids who was mocking who and they tell him it was the kid, not me.
So the boss tells me he's figured out that the kid is lying (no shit) and that he'll be removed for the rest of the class (ok.)
I walked away form the whole thing feeling like shit. My boss has no reason not to trust me, but more importantly, I have no reason to lie about this kid's behaviour! What would I gain from this?
I really wanted to confront my boss. "Why don't you take me at my word?" etc. If this was my first couple of months here I would have, but I've got less than 100 days left here, I figure it's not worth the fight. Also I'm getting pretty used to things in Korea not making sense. But *beep*, it still burns. Trust the word of a fucking ten year old over your employee? I feel like maybe it's cultural. Like he automatically will trust a Korean over a waygook. |
You shouldn't be over sensitive about this.
Your boss interviewed the class. They confirmed what you said. Your boss supported you by removing the kid from the class for the rest of the day - a severe punishment in Korea. The student and the rest of the class know that they will be punished for mocking and that your boss supported you on this. Some of your students will now want to stay on the good side of authority though, so some of them may become annoying tattlers.
You should take this as a win. |
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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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| Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 8:49 am Post subject: Re: Trust issues. |
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| ontheway wrote: |
| ChrisLamp wrote: |
Today I kicked a kid out of my class because after telling numerous times to play the games by the rules he mocked me to my face in front of the other children. (that "uuuuh uhhh" kinda sneering mocking tone). this boy is a constant disruption and the boss knows about his behaviour problems.
Anyway, about a minute after I kick him out the boss is in my class, saying the kid is telling a different story, the exact opposite story. Apparently I had been mocking him. Fine, I step into the hall and explain the situation to the boss. This is the part where he calls the kid on his lie, right? Wrong. He goes into the class and asks the other kids what went on. He knows I don't understand korean, but I was 100% able to follow the exchange. He asked the kids who was mocking who and they tell him it was the kid, not me.
So the boss tells me he's figured out that the kid is lying (no shit) and that he'll be removed for the rest of the class (ok.)
I walked away form the whole thing feeling like shit. My boss has no reason not to trust me, but more importantly, I have no reason to lie about this kid's behaviour! What would I gain from this?
I really wanted to confront my boss. "Why don't you take me at my word?" etc. If this was my first couple of months here I would have, but I've got less than 100 days left here, I figure it's not worth the fight. Also I'm getting pretty used to things in Korea not making sense. But *beep*, it still burns. Trust the word of a fucking ten year old over your employee? I feel like maybe it's cultural. Like he automatically will trust a Korean over a waygook. |
You shouldn't be over sensitive about this.
Your boss interviewed the class. They confirmed what you said. Your boss supported you by removing the kid from the class for the rest of the day - a severe punishment in Korea. The student and the rest of the class know that they will be punished for mocking and that your boss supported you on this. Some of your students will now want to stay on the good side of authority though, so some of them may become annoying tattlers.
You should take this as a win. |
No to mention that by doing this in front of the rest of the class, your boss showed the kids that when you punish someone, its for real.
That disruptive kid also lost a bit of face there with his little buddies.
From the sound of it, your boss did not do much wrong here and it seems you are reacting a bit strongly.
Heck the class backed you up and so did your boss, PUBLICLY.
Thats one for the teachers win colum! |
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some waygug-in
Joined: 25 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 9:24 am Post subject: Re: Trust issues. |
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| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
| ontheway wrote: |
| ChrisLamp wrote: |
Today I kicked a kid out of my class because after telling numerous times to play the games by the rules he mocked me to my face in front of the other children. (that "uuuuh uhhh" kinda sneering mocking tone). this boy is a constant disruption and the boss knows about his behaviour problems.
Anyway, about a minute after I kick him out the boss is in my class, saying the kid is telling a different story, the exact opposite story. Apparently I had been mocking him. Fine, I step into the hall and explain the situation to the boss. This is the part where he calls the kid on his lie, right? Wrong. He goes into the class and asks the other kids what went on. He knows I don't understand korean, but I was 100% able to follow the exchange. He asked the kids who was mocking who and they tell him it was the kid, not me.
So the boss tells me he's figured out that the kid is lying (no shit) and that he'll be removed for the rest of the class (ok.)
I walked away form the whole thing feeling like shit. My boss has no reason not to trust me, but more importantly, I have no reason to lie about this kid's behaviour! What would I gain from this?
I really wanted to confront my boss. "Why don't you take me at my word?" etc. If this was my first couple of months here I would have, but I've got less than 100 days left here, I figure it's not worth the fight. Also I'm getting pretty used to things in Korea not making sense. But *beep*, it still burns. Trust the word of a fucking ten year old over your employee? I feel like maybe it's cultural. Like he automatically will trust a Korean over a waygook. |
You shouldn't be over sensitive about this.
Your boss interviewed the class. They confirmed what you said. Your boss supported you by removing the kid from the class for the rest of the day - a severe punishment in Korea. The student and the rest of the class know that they will be punished for mocking and that your boss supported you on this. Some of your students will now want to stay on the good side of authority though, so some of them may become annoying tattlers.
You should take this as a win. |
No to mention that by doing this in front of the rest of the class, your boss showed the kids that when you punish someone, its for real.
That disruptive kid also lost a bit of face there with his little buddies.
From the sound of it, your boss did not do much wrong here and it seems you are reacting a bit strongly.
Heck the class backed you up and so did your boss, PUBLICLY.
Thats one for the teachers win colum! |
No, not so. What the boss has done has shown the students that the boss will take their word over that of the FT. Just because the class backed him this time doesn't mean it will always be so.
This is one reason why hagwon teachers can have such problems with
classroom control. The boss/school will not support them.
But I agree about not being over sensitive over this. It's typical hogwon
BS. |
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ontheway
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere under the rainbow...
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| Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 10:12 am Post subject: Re: Trust issues. |
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| some waygug-in wrote: |
| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
| ontheway wrote: |
| ChrisLamp wrote: |
Today I kicked a kid out of my class because after telling numerous times to play the games by the rules he mocked me to my face in front of the other children. (that "uuuuh uhhh" kinda sneering mocking tone). this boy is a constant disruption and the boss knows about his behaviour problems.
Anyway, about a minute after I kick him out the boss is in my class, saying the kid is telling a different story, the exact opposite story. Apparently I had been mocking him. Fine, I step into the hall and explain the situation to the boss. This is the part where he calls the kid on his lie, right? Wrong. He goes into the class and asks the other kids what went on. He knows I don't understand korean, but I was 100% able to follow the exchange. He asked the kids who was mocking who and they tell him it was the kid, not me.
So the boss tells me he's figured out that the kid is lying (no shit) and that he'll be removed for the rest of the class (ok.)
I walked away form the whole thing feeling like shit. My boss has no reason not to trust me, but more importantly, I have no reason to lie about this kid's behaviour! What would I gain from this?
I really wanted to confront my boss. "Why don't you take me at my word?" etc. If this was my first couple of months here I would have, but I've got less than 100 days left here, I figure it's not worth the fight. Also I'm getting pretty used to things in Korea not making sense. But *beep*, it still burns. Trust the word of a fucking ten year old over your employee? I feel like maybe it's cultural. Like he automatically will trust a Korean over a waygook. |
You shouldn't be over sensitive about this.
Your boss interviewed the class. They confirmed what you said. Your boss supported you by removing the kid from the class for the rest of the day - a severe punishment in Korea. The student and the rest of the class know that they will be punished for mocking and that your boss supported you on this. Some of your students will now want to stay on the good side of authority though, so some of them may become annoying tattlers.
You should take this as a win. |
No to mention that by doing this in front of the rest of the class, your boss showed the kids that when you punish someone, its for real.
That disruptive kid also lost a bit of face there with his little buddies.
From the sound of it, your boss did not do much wrong here and it seems you are reacting a bit strongly.
Heck the class backed you up and so did your boss, PUBLICLY.
Thats one for the teachers win colum! |
No, not so. What the boss has done has shown the students that the boss will take their word over that of the FT. Just because the class backed him this time doesn't mean it will always be so.
This is one reason why hagwon teachers can have such problems with
classroom control. The boss/school will not support them.
But I agree about not being over sensitive over this. It's typical hogwon
BS. |
I can't agree with you at all on this.
Even in a monolingual situation, the teacher can misunderstand, make a mistake or be deliberately wrong. In my own school days I had vice principals come in on several occasions, talk to students and then determine - and rightfully so - that teachers were wrong. The teachers were properly reamed for their "mistakes" and we all knew it. Sometimes teachers are the offenders and administrations need to get enough information to make an unbiased decision.
If a teacher is afraid of what his students will reveal, then it may well be that the teacher is the problem. It may be a small percentage, but teachers make mistakes every day and then lie about it to avoid a reprimand - typical CYA response.
In a classroom where the teacher isn't fluent in the language and culture of the students, it's essential for the administrators to get the full facts from all sides.
In a school where the administrators do not respect and consider the students, and where teachers abuse this power and the students realize they're being mistreated, there will eventually be a revolt against the weakest point in the system. The teacher and the school will lose control.
The boss, the school, or the principal should not blindly support a teacher. They should interview the students and act appropriately. |
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Warhammer820
Joined: 03 Jun 2011
Location: USA
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| Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 10:33 am Post subject: |
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| i know how to kick a child out in america, but how do y'all do it at a hagwon? Do you just tell the studnet to get out and continue to teach the class? |
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ontheway
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere under the rainbow...
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| Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 10:43 am Post subject: |
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| Warhammer820 wrote: |
| i know how to kick a child out in america, but how do y'all do it at a hagwon? Do you just tell the studnet to get out and continue to teach the class? |
A good school will have a disciplinary system in place and the teacher will be advised on how to use it. Removing a child from class should not be the first option. |
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koreatimes
Joined: 07 Jun 2011
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| Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 11:16 am Post subject: |
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| I walked away form the whole thing feeling like shit. My boss has no reason not to trust me, but more importantly, I have no reason to lie about this kid's behaviour! What would I gain from this? |
There are 2 people involved here, not just you. Doing justice on you was not on the agenda. Doing justice on the student was. The actions involved revolved around the student, not you.
The last thing you want is a relationship with a hagwon that relies on "your word". This is how it should be done, and I would have liked the hagwons I worked for to have done this.
| Quote: |
| i know how to kick a child out in america, but how do y'all do it at a hagwon? Do you just tell the studnet to get out and continue to teach the class? |
Usually the kid will want to leave, so they can goof off. At a public school this is less desirable. I brought colored markers to one class, and one student knew colors but decided to play games. When I asked which color his group wanted, he kept saying "the white one (he he he)". This alone was not a problem, but he went on like this. After kicking him out the rest of the class settled down and we finished the lesson as planned.
If the class benefits like this, then I don't see a problem. If kicking the student out doesn't change the progress of the class/lesson, then it kind of rewards troublemakers instead of teaching them how to behave.
It's the smarter students that often try to get away with this too. That's what makes it so hard to punish them. The other students probably don't understand why, and they just see a good student getting kicked out. You need to make sure they understand why also. |
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some waygug-in
Joined: 25 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 2:16 pm Post subject: Re: Trust issues. |
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The boss, the school, or the principal should not blindly support a teacher. They should interview the students and act appropriately.[/quote]
I didn't say he should, I just don't think confronting the teacher in front of the class was the best way of handling the situation.
Interviewing the students after class is probably the best solution.
I was responding to the notion that the boss "supported" the teacher in this case, when clearly he did not.
He needlessly humiliated the teacher in front of the rest of the class. |
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koreatimes
Joined: 07 Jun 2011
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| Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 2:29 pm Post subject: |
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| He needlessly humiliated the teacher in front of the rest of the class. |
I don't see how confirming the teacher's stance is humiliating. I would rather be there and know what was going on in "my class" than be told, "Just sit in the teacher's room while we talk behind your back." |
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some waygug-in
Joined: 25 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 2:43 pm Post subject: |
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| koreatimes wrote: |
| Quote: |
| He needlessly humiliated the teacher in front of the rest of the class. |
I don't see how confirming the teacher's stance is humiliating. I would rather be there and know what was going on in "my class" than be told, "Just sit in the teacher's room while we talk behind your back." |
He could have easily talked to all parties concerned after class including the teacher.
Ask the OP if it was humiliating. I think you should be able to tell that by reading the original post. |
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ChrisLamp
Joined: 27 Jul 2010
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| Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 6:22 pm Post subject: |
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| I just feel that since I'm 3/4 of the way through my contract I've earned the right to a little autonomy in my classroom. If I think a kid is being disruptive and should be removed, my boss should trust me. This isn't "blind" support, it's trusting the people you've hired to do their job, without undermining and micromanaging. |
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ChrisLamp
Joined: 27 Jul 2010
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| Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 6:32 pm Post subject: |
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| Anyway, I'd like to think I'm not being "overly sensitive" about this. If I were I would have confronted my boss, I guess I just needed to vent a little. Thanks for your opinions everybody. |
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