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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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 Posted: Fri Aug 26, 2011 11:11 am Post subject: |
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The OP got stuck in what appears to be a bad situation. This is too bad and he needs to decide what to do.
This is what happens to anyone who gets stuck in a bad or dissapointing job situation.
So all thats left for him is to decide how to move on: quit or run.
Did he do his homework before signing on..it seems he did some research. Does he have experience in Korea prior to this jobs? It seems so.
I will just say, the odds of landing a bad job should diminish to almost zero as you gain in country experience. |
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shifty
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
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| Posted: Fri Aug 26, 2011 10:14 pm Post subject: |
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| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
| The OP got stuck in what appears to be a bad situation. This is too bad and he needs to decide what to do. |
He has...... decided.
| Quote: |
This is what happens to anyone who gets stuck in a bad or dissapointing job situation.
So all thats left for him is to decide how to move on: quit or run. |
You never believed Utopian's plan of joining forces with the labor board had merit?
| Quote: |
| Did he do his homework before signing on..it seems he did some research. Does he have experience in Korea prior to this jobs? It seems so. |
This is an occasion when the use of the word 'seems' should be avoided. It insults the OP and achieves nothing. It's fine for you to think it, but you shouldn't say it.
| Quote: |
| I will just say, the odds of landing a bad job should diminish to almost zero as you gain in country experience. |
Almost zero!!!! Have a heart!!! Can we agree to work the odds up a bit to something commensurate with Korea? |
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Tigerstyleone
Joined: 01 Feb 2009
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| Posted: Fri Aug 26, 2011 11:33 pm Post subject: Re: Another of Korea's victims? |
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| Pojogae wrote: |
Why did I take this job? Because it is in the middle of Seoul, and this is the only thing I took into consideration when accepting it. Well, I got what I wanted.
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Let me point out the quote "this is the ONLY thing I took into consideration.
thanks,
by the way... I'm on a boat
and... its not in the center of Seoul |
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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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| Posted: Sat Aug 27, 2011 3:01 am Post subject: Re: Another of Korea's victims? |
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| Tigerstyleone wrote: |
| Pojogae wrote: |
Why did I take this job? Because it is in the middle of Seoul, and this is the only thing I took into consideration when accepting it. Well, I got what I wanted.
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Let me point out the quote "this is the ONLY thing I took into consideration.
thanks,
by the way... I'm on a boat
and... its not in the center of Seoul |
This is the second time this point is made and it does explain part of what happened to the OP.
Location is important but in no way should it supersede other elements of the job offer. |
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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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| Posted: Sat Aug 27, 2011 3:03 am Post subject: |
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Shifter...you have just been promoted Commander of the PC police, worldwide mandate.
Your mission: root out words people use that could possibly be remotely interpreted as potentially ambigous which in turn could lead a person to nfeel hurt.... 
Good lord man....get a grip, seriously.
As for more direct response to what you posted last: the Labor Board is a very useful resource for many teachers. It does and can solve problems but oddly enough it requires supporting documentations to make a case. I would recommend it to most teachers who get cheated as an option. I suppose the OP could have gone there (or will).
I wish him luck locating another job if that is his intent and we can assume this episode will go into his lessons learned file.
Now your turn to comment on something related to the OP...
He said: Why did I take this job? Because it is in the middle of Seoul, and this is the only thing I took into consideration when accepting it. Well, I got what I wanted.
Do you not consider that this is an odd way to do your homework with regards to a job?
Seriously, lets take a stroll into adulthood for a second and accept that people have to take some form of responsibility for the choices they make and for how they reached that choice.
The OP got a raw deal but at the other end of it, he considered location as the end all condition and seems to have ignore other elements (even of he may have tried to change what he initially said in further posts, he still said it very clearly: location dwarfed ALL other considerations). |
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Pojogae
Joined: 30 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Sat Aug 27, 2011 3:59 am Post subject: |
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Just adjust 'only thing' to 'most significant thing' and it will be more accurate. Of course I also took into consideration whether they would actually pay me money for working, but such things don't really need to be elaborated, do they?
Seoul is a city with a lot to offer; however you talk as if desiring to come here implies some sort of naivity on my part. Would I make similar compromises to work here again? Probably not. But the job that was presented to me by the recruiter, and after I'd done my homework, seemed more than reasonable - and so it was, at first.
Sometimes you need to have a bad experience here to be able to identify the little things in contracts or interviews that may give clues to further problems. Other times the company just starts to run out of money. It can be hard to anticipate the latter.
There is a difference between being stuck in a bad situation that is exactly as it was presented to you from the outset and being stuck in one that involves lying, cheating, and flagrant violations of the contract. I don't really think I should feel that I carry much blame for finding myself in this fix, even if being in Seoul was the most significant thing that inspired my choice. |
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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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| Posted: Sat Aug 27, 2011 4:04 am Post subject: |
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No problem OP. Your thread, you can adjust it all you like. 
Hope you do ok in whatever you choose to do next and I wish you luck. Still, everyone has to have a level of responsiblity for the choices they make. Key word: level as in it depends.
Good luck and seriously, this thread should end now, your story seems to be over with regards to the initial post... |
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ZIFA
Joined: 23 Feb 2011
Location: Dici che il fiume..Trova la via al mare
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| Posted: Sat Aug 27, 2011 4:50 am Post subject: |
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| sHIFTY wrote: |
| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
| I will just say, the odds of landing a bad job should diminish to almost zero as you gain in country experience. |
Almost zero!!!! Have a heart!!! Can we agree to work the odds up a bit to something commensurate with Korea? |
Actually being an old hand doesn't make much difference at the moment.
its 100% an employers market now. Esl teachers are a dime a dozen.
Workplace abuses are on the rise, they know they can get away with it in the current economic climate.
Last edited by ZIFA on Sat Aug 27, 2011 4:59 am; edited 1 time in total |
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shifty
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
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| Posted: Sat Aug 27, 2011 4:54 am Post subject: |
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| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
Shifter...you have just been promoted Commander of the PC police, worldwide mandate.
Your mission: root out words people use that could possibly be remotely interpreted as potentially ambigous which in turn could lead a person to nfeel hurt....
Good lord man....get a grip, seriously.
As for more direct response to what you posted last: the Labor Board is a very useful resource for many teachers. It does and can solve problems but oddly enough it requires supporting documentations to make a case. I would recommend it to most teachers who get cheated as an option. I suppose the OP could have gone there (or will).
I wish him luck locating another job if that is his intent and we can assume this episode will go into his lessons learned file.
Now your turn to comment on something related to the OP...
He said: Why did I take this job? Because it is in the middle of Seoul, and this is the only thing I took into consideration when accepting it. Well, I got what I wanted.
Do you not consider that this is an odd way to do your homework with regards to a job?
Seriously, lets take a stroll into adulthood for a second and accept that people have to take some form of responsibility for the choices they make and for how they reached that choice.
The OP got a raw deal but at the other end of it, he considered location as the end all condition and seems to have ignore other elements (even of he may have tried to change what he initially said in further posts, he still said it very clearly: location dwarfed ALL other considerations). |
Thanks for the promotion. A lot of it I owe you, you've paved the way, really.
Going back to the thread. You've made a woeful error of judgement. The OP was asking for advice as to his next step. His berating of himself on location was wholly incidental and thus he didn't go into chapter and verse.
His 'adjustments' have no bearing on his premise. It was only when Tiger jumped in with fresh issues that he found it necessary to embroider.
I'm wondering on the irony that you've managed to wangle a job, where giving advice on Korea plays a major part. The mind boggles!! |
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some waygug-in
Joined: 25 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Sat Aug 27, 2011 5:26 am Post subject: |
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Patrick wrote:
I will just say, the odds of landing a bad job should diminish to almost zero as you gain in country experience. [quote:]
Sure, whatever you say there Pat.
It's like saying ,"after a couple years of driving, no one should ever have a car accident."
You can drive defensively, you can obey all the laws and be as careful as you want to be. But there are a lot of nuts behind the wheel.
Some things just happen, they are out of your control and there's really nothing you can do about it.
All you can do is try your best not to be another nut. |
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jamesd
Joined: 15 Aug 2011
Location: Korea
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| Posted: Sat Aug 27, 2011 7:07 am Post subject: |
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Good lord! I think the OP got the message and seems he has learnt a good lesson already. Now, the OP has decided on his next course of action. Let's get over it.
Good luck to you OP. |
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shifty
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
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| Posted: Sat Aug 27, 2011 9:02 am Post subject: |
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| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
| the Labor Board is a very useful resource for many teachers. It does and can solve problems but oddly enough it requires supporting documentations to make a case. I would recommend it to most teachers who get cheated as an option. I suppose the OP could have gone there (or will). |
Look what you say here, that you'd recommend the labor board to most teachers who get cheated. The fact is that you DIDN'T in this thread and it would have been a lovely opportunity for you. Several times you could have done, but instead this rather obvious thing wouldn't come to mind.
The last line of the quoted passage "I suppose the OP could have gone there" is too little and lot too late. You can't have your cake and eat it.
If it had been me, I would have said, 'Damn, I didn't think of that, rats!', and I don't think anyone would have thought the less of me.
And to think that you consider yourself a heavy hitter Korea advisor.
You say 'but oddly enough it requires supporting documentation'. This smacks strongly of your legendary contempt for NETS in Korea. You presuppose that he has no documentation on the basis alone that he by some fixed derogatory definition, couldn't possibly have.
I have noticed that you don't allocate enough time to reading threads properly. You are often underinformed and behindhand. May I suggest you not be so garrulous and devote saved time to actually come to grips with what's going on. |
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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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| Posted: Sat Aug 27, 2011 3:13 pm Post subject: |
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| some waygug-in wrote: |
Patrick wrote:
I will just say, the odds of landing a bad job should diminish to almost zero as you gain in country experience. [quote:]
Sure, whatever you say there Pat.
It's like saying ,"after a couple years of driving, no one should ever have a car accident."
You can drive defensively, you can obey all the laws and be as careful as you want to be. But there are a lot of nuts behind the wheel.
Some things just happen, they are out of your control and there's really nothing you can do about it.
All you can do is try your best not to be another nut. |
Well too bad for you, seriously.
But honestly, the odds of landing a bad job can be nearly eliminated once you have been in Korea for a bit. Why?
Quite simple really:
You should know the game better since you have now lived and worked there for a year or more.
If you did more than sit on your hands playing bingo and going out drinking, then you accumulated at least 1 or 2 contacts that can start refering you to jobs.
You are set up IN country and can VISITS schools, see accomodations, attend in person interviews
The EXPERIENCE you gain should at the very least allow you to sniff out a bad job.
I mean seriously....you have so many advantages being in Korea and knowing how the system works. If you cannot nearly eliminate the odds of landing a bad job, then sorry but you lack a bit of drive and perception.
Now by simply paying attention, doing minimal networking and using your experience you can pretty much line up better jobs after even ONE YEAR in Korea.
Finally, with experience, you can spot the signs of a bad job faster after you start working and know how you can quit and find new work because you are IN Korea and if you were minimally organised you saved a bit of money to use in case of an emergency.
This is not far fetched or extraordinary, it is simply being minimally aware and self sufficient. |
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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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| Posted: Sat Aug 27, 2011 3:18 pm Post subject: |
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Shifter you seriously need a new hobby outside of over analyzing everything I say.
Also, "heavy hitter advisor" wtf...you really need to step down from the analyst chair and calm down man.
Its Saturday night for you now...go have a drink, relax and stop hyper-analyzing everything I write.
The amusing thing is that you scrutinze everything I have said in this thread but drive right by what the OP has said and even miss what I have said and meant.
Now, I am done with this thread as the OP has obviously moved on. You can continue to play your silly little game with my posts shifty, do so to your hearts content.
I know you will continue to follow me along in other threads as it seems to be a hobby of yours.
Here is an idea shifty...why not post advice in threads instead of jumping into a thread simply to get on my posts?
In fact...I would be quite happy for you to share your EXTENSIVE wisdom on working and living in Korea because you have been there for a long time it seems.
Cheers. |
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Savant
Joined: 25 May 2007
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| Posted: Sat Aug 27, 2011 4:31 pm Post subject: |
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| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
| some waygug-in wrote: |
Patrick wrote:
I will just say, the odds of landing a bad job should diminish to almost zero as you gain in country experience. [quote:]
Sure, whatever you say there Pat.
It's like saying ,"after a couple years of driving, no one should ever have a car accident."
You can drive defensively, you can obey all the laws and be as careful as you want to be. But there are a lot of nuts behind the wheel.
Some things just happen, they are out of your control and there's really nothing you can do about it.
All you can do is try your best not to be another nut. |
Well too bad for you, seriously.
But honestly, the odds of landing a bad job can be nearly eliminated once you have been in Korea for a bit. Why?
Quite simple really:
You should know the game better since you have now lived and worked there for a year or more.
If you did more than sit on your hands playing bingo and going out drinking, then you accumulated at least 1 or 2 contacts that can start refering you to jobs.
You are set up IN country and can VISITS schools, see accomodations, attend in person interviews
The EXPERIENCE you gain should at the very least allow you to sniff out a bad job.
I mean seriously....you have so many advantages being in Korea and knowing how the system works. If you cannot nearly eliminate the odds of landing a bad job, then sorry but you lack a bit of drive and perception.
Now by simply paying attention, doing minimal networking and using your experience you can pretty much line up better jobs after even ONE YEAR in Korea.
Finally, with experience, you can spot the signs of a bad job faster after you start working and know how you can quit and find new work because you are IN Korea and if you were minimally organised you saved a bit of money to use in case of an emergency.
This is not far fetched or extraordinary, it is simply being minimally aware and self sufficient. |
Patrick, thanks for giving us your perception and experience. Except your perception and experience does not equate to the reality that a lot of us have faced. You made it good in Korea, good for you! Congratulations!
But you still fail to see or deny yourself the ability to see the hardships that many of us continue to face. Not all of us have an F visa to fall back on.
How the system works in Korea? You're aware of the two-faced nature of a lot on Koreans; particularly those in Management? No matter how good a school is, there still remains a possibility to get screwed on contractual issues or benefits required by Korean law i.e. Health Insurance, Pension, Severance etc.
You mention about lacking drive? Well, a lot of us drive forward to try and make a bad situation or unnecessary office BS bearable for us.
With EXPERIENCE one can learn to give and take with Korean management to make a hospitable environment. With EXPERIENCE one can fully understand the Labor law regarding contractual issues and be unafraid to challenge their school on it. With EXPERIENCE one can have the financial means to do the previous without being scared about losing their job and having nothing to stand or live on. EXPERIENCE does not make you impervious to finding yourself in a bad situation. Many long timers have posted about this so it is not uncommon and is certainly not about lacking drive and perception. |
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