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some waygug-in
Joined: 25 Jan 2003
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 Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 10:49 am Post subject: |
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I doubt it. Their ideas of race seem to trump common sense in a lot of cases.
If they have to change teachers there's always an FOB whitey available.
If they were really concerned about the quality of teachers they would be demanding higher qualifications for most jobs.
As long as there are ubiquitous ads with "no experience necessary" I can't see standards improving at all. |
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Weigookin74
Joined: 26 Oct 2009
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| Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 4:01 pm Post subject: |
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| some waygug-in wrote: |
I doubt it. Their ideas of race seem to trump common sense in a lot of cases.
If they have to change teachers there's always an FOB whitey available.
If they were really concerned about the quality of teachers they would be demanding higher qualifications for most jobs.
As long as there are ubiquitous ads with "no experience necessary" I can't see standards improving at all. |
Yeah, but will they pay for those qualifications? Mostly, I only see jobs advertised in the low 2's same as it was 5 years ago. If Koreans seriously wanted Ed degrees and Masters with experience, they'd be offering higher salaries. But, I don't see that much. |
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Weigookin74
Joined: 26 Oct 2009
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| Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 4:03 pm Post subject: |
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| World Traveler wrote: |
| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
| viciousdinosaur wrote: |
1) Enrollment is down across the country (low-birth rate) School's are not expanding, they are shrinking. They are not opening, they're closing.
2) Wages are stagnant. There isn't the extra cash to throw around anymore.
3) Public schools are cutting back in a big way.
4) A lot of parents are fed up with hagwons and hire tutors instead or send them to the local community centre.
5) A bunch of the teachers who were here during the boom are trying to find another position
6) 8% (really 25%) unemployment in most of the developed world
These are the reasons you are having trouble fining the job you think you deserve.
Did anyone think this would last forever? That anyone with a degree could come to Korea and make lots of money. The market is already at a point where the lack of a teaching degree or experience makes it very difficult to operate here and that will only increase in the future. Fortunately for you there are plenty alternatives, and their names are China and Vietnam |
1- 3 are pretty accurate points.
4 remains to be seen
[snip] |
Regarding point 4, SO MANY hagwons have been losing students and going under lately. What in the heck is causing this?
I remember when the public school cuts took place, there was speculation this would help the hagwon industry, and lead to more jobs for foreigners there. Instead, that hope didn't materialize, and jobs for foreigners are being cut. What in the Sam Hill is going on?
Maybe parents are teaching their kids English themselves now? Or there are community centers that do this? I heard the number Filipinos in Korea is way up; many of them teach English as private tutors. Also, Korea parents can buy Skype lessons for their kids taught by a Filipino living in the Philippines. Did you hear Ban Ki Moon wrote a book (now popular in Korea) in which he said he taught English to himself (without going to a hagwon)? And did you know a group made and distributed mass amounts of flyers saying hagwons to learn English aren't the best use of one's money?
These are some possible contributing factors. Maybe there are other ones. What do you guys think/know about this? |
I've always gotten the feeling that Koreans use Fillipinos as a cheap option but don't really like using them as much as a native speaker. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 5:25 pm Post subject: |
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| happiness wrote: |
| [. ALSO, aIve heard as up to 50% of those who come here, dont finish their contracts/do a runner/just go home. Its not everyones cup of tea to live overseas. |
Don't believe everything you hear. 50% on the face of it sounds ridiculous
And when the statistics WERE actually provided (2008 and 2009) the rate of those who quit early was around the 5% mark (in both years)
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I had to laugh when I did the simple math. looking at the number of teachers quitting early, going from 283 to 425 in 2008 and 2009, we see a 33.4% increase. Of course, if you look at those numbers as a percentage of the total number of teachers hired, you get different results.
283 out of 5,115 is 5.53% and 425 out of 7,631 is 5.57%. Therefore, the rate of teachers quitting early rose from 5.53% in 2008 to 5.57% in 2009 - an increase of 0.04% |
http://populargusts.blogspot.kr/2010/10/incorrect-statistics-depict-foreign.html |
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some waygug-in
Joined: 25 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 5:16 am Post subject: |
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[
Yeah, but will they pay for those qualifications? Mostly, I only see jobs advertised in the low 2's same as it was 5 years ago. If Koreans seriously wanted Ed degrees and Masters with experience, they'd be offering higher salaries. But, I don't see that much.[/quote]
Sadly, it seems the answer is no. I think there are higher paying jobs out there, but they are not widely advertised. |
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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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| Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 5:31 am Post subject: |
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| Sadly, it seems the answer is no. I think there are higher paying jobs out there, but they are not widely advertised. |
Which is what usually happens with higher paid jobs. Such employers do not mass advertise the jobs as it makes no sense. They tend to focus their ads in places where they will get the kind of applicants they want. |
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nautilus
Joined: 26 Nov 2005
Location: Je jump, Tu jump, oui jump!
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| Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 6:14 am Post subject: |
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| some waygug-in wrote: |
As long as there are ubiquitous ads with "no experience necessary" I can't see standards improving at all. |
Lol but then Koreans would have to admit that all they want is 20 year olds who look pretty.
Real expertise scares koreans, it makes them look bad. |
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creeper1
Joined: 30 Jan 2007
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| Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 8:16 am Post subject: fair to say |
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It's fair to say that there are still thousands of jobs available in Korea even in desirable places like Seoul. A quick look at the jobs section confirms that.
Anyone foreign with a pulse will get one.
Salaries will be around 2.6 million won.
With work on the side expect your real earnings to be around 4 million a month.
Korea really is the place to make $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.
And if you aren't then something is wrong with you. |
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misher
Joined: 14 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 1:32 pm Post subject: |
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| Korea really is the place to make $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$. |
3500 USD a month is not very much IMO. It's ok if you are young and single with no financial obligations, but I don't want to be 45 making 3500 a month. You're also at the whim of the Korean government and can lose that "sweet gig" depending on factors that are well out of your control. Again its not a place I want to be in when I'm 45.
Then again for what a conversation teacher actually does, I suppose 3500 USD/month is "good" money. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 4:17 pm Post subject: |
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| misher wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Korea really is the place to make $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$. |
3500 USD a month is not very much IMO. It's ok if you are young and single with no financial obligations, but I don't want to be 45 making 3500 a month. You're also at the whim of the Korean government and can lose that "sweet gig" depending on factors that are well out of your control. Again its not a place I want to be in when I'm 45.
Then again for what a conversation teacher actually does, I suppose 3500 USD/month is "good" money. |
3500 USD is pretty good money in the States (Not just Korea)
http://www.ehow.com/info_7746957_average-annual-salary-america.html
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National Averages
The average worker in the United States earns an average hourly wage of $20.90, reports the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics' 2010-2011 occupational handbook. This rings up to an average annual salary of $43,460. |
It's better than the average wage earnings in America...which is considerably higher than the average in Korea. (3500*13 (severance) is 45,500 USD.
Yeah if you are in a high-ranking corporate position then it's not a lot of money. But it's probably more money than 90-95% of the teachers here make a month.
Last edited by TheUrbanMyth on Thu Jan 17, 2013 4:24 pm; edited 4 times in total |
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World Traveler
Joined: 29 May 2009
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| Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 4:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Is it really that easy to make $3,500 (without an F visa) though? It's almost impossible (except for those in high level jobs with years of experience...and those people are the extreme minority). Gone are the days when anyone with a pulse could make big money. Now, bar has been raised, and one must be female with a pulse or hold the F visa and have a pulse to make even decent money. Creeper1 is a troll by the way. He lives in Beijing, China, and thinks by lying about the state of the Korean market he can keep people away from where he lives, so he can have all the babes to himself...or something like that. What a weird creepy guy. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 4:41 pm Post subject: |
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| World Traveler wrote: |
| Is it really that easy to make $3,500 (without an F visa) though? It's almost impossible (except for those in high level jobs with years of experience...and those people are the extreme minority). Gone are the days when anyone with a pulse could make big money. Now, bar has been raised, and one must be female with a pulse or hold the F visa and have a pulse to make even decent money. Creeper1 is a troll by the way. He lives in Beijing, China, and thinks by lying about the state of the Korean market he can keep people away from where he lives, so he can have all the babes to himself...or something like that. What a weird creepy guy. |
I am neither female nor hold a F-visa. I do however have years of experience so yes I will agree on that point. But yes you can make that kind of money (or close to it...depending on exchange rate)
"Hypothetical" example: 
Let's say you make 2.8 M (which is the stated absolute top of the payscale in public school (EPIK Chungnam)
That's for 22 classes a week.
Let's say that you teach extra classes (either at your original school or another public school...oh about 8 extra a week (which brings you up to 30 classes a week which is about the same as an average hakwon.
That's 8*20,000 per week so 8*20,000*4=640,000. And there are usually more than 4 weeks in a month...so it's around 700,000 usually. Add that to your 2.8 million and you are at 3.5 M per month. Throw in a couple of teacher classes a week on top of that...and you are at 3.6+ million won a month.
That's just one way of several legal ways to do that on an E-2 visa.
Another way is editing work (such as textbooks and publications) but I don't want to say a lot about that (for rather obvious reasons ) Again legal and in addition to your job can net you close to 4 million a month (if it is steady work). However you do have to have (A) connections to the people who can give such jobs and (B) Immigration's approval (not always guaranteed).
EDIT: And don't forget pension (the boss's share). At 3.0 million per month that's an extra 1.6 million won (per year) to the total added above.
Last edited by TheUrbanMyth on Thu Jan 17, 2013 6:42 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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ttompatz
Joined: 05 Sep 2005
Location: Kwangju, South Korea
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| Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 5:11 pm Post subject: |
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And lets not forget that the 3.0-3.5 mil doesn't include the extras that you don't usually get at home: airfare, housing, etc.
Add another 800k per month to the overall remuneration package.
Realistically, a NET can get out of college with their shiny new degree, take a 30-day TEFL course and get an ENTRY LEVEL job with a remuneration package with a total annual value of about US$45-$50k per year (wages and benefits) all in.
Unless you are in a pretty "in-demand occupation", your average, fresh-out-of-college grad is NOT going to make that at home (although the career path at home can quickly outpace what your average TEFLer will earn over the long run).
All that said - teaching has NEVER been a "lucrative" occupation. It is firmly planted into what would be considered "middle class" just about everywhere on the planet.
If you want to get rich, get a job as an investment banker on Wall Street, Bloor street or in the London financial district.
However, teachers who are good at their craft, who do upgrade their skill-sets and who have the credentials to back it up can command a pretty healthy remuneration package in most places on the globe.
Is the Korean market flooded with entry level applicants = yes.
Is there a place for experienced teachers = yes.
Is the GLOBAL market for entry level positions flooded = no. There are lots of jobs in TEFL and there are lots of career opportunities for those who wish to make a career out of it.
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oppa637
Joined: 05 Dec 2011
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| Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 6:26 pm Post subject: |
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| If you are from the states, dont' forget about no taxes first 2 years. Or even if you have to pay taxes here, far less than in the states. |
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nautilus
Joined: 26 Nov 2005
Location: Je jump, Tu jump, oui jump!
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| Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 6:56 pm Post subject: |
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| ttompatz wrote: |
And lets not forget that the 3.0-3.5 mil doesn't include the extras that you don't usually get at home: airfare, housing, etc.
Add another 800k per month to the overall remuneration package.
Realistically, a NET can get out of college with their shiny new degree, take a 30-day TEFL course and get an ENTRY LEVEL job with a remuneration package with a total annual value of about US$45-$50k per year |
One tends to get tired of the relentless exagerration you see on these forums.
Sorry newbs but the wage earned by the vast majority of esl teachers here is, was, and has always been about 2- 2.3M a month, enabling you to save just over a million won-roughly 1000 US$ - per month.
So you'll save 12K in a year.
Time to put down the crackpipe and those fantasies of vast wealth tompatz. |
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