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Steelrails

Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System

Posted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 8:04 pm Post subject:

augustine wrote:

Patrick Bateman wrote:

augustine wrote:

There's nothing to rethink. Again, I think it's idiotic to believe that it's pure happenstance that this character wound up in Korea and spams a Korean forum daily. It's a sham.

I think you're on to something...It couldn't be happenstance that an American came to Korea AND joined a message board for foreigners in Korea.

Which are you thinking: Korean Sentry, DPRK spy, maybe former KGB?

Nah, just a confused kid.

Don't call me a kid. Call me confused, but don't call me a kid.

Who am I? An American English Teacher in Korea who joined a board for English Teachers in Korea. Same as many people on these boards.

optik404

Joined: 24 Jun 2008

Posted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 8:57 pm Post subject:

If a Korean came to your home country to work/study and said, why are all Americans/Brits/Aussies/etc stupid, fat, rude, etc... Would any of us not comment on it? Or would it be a conflict of interest?

Seoulman69

Joined: 14 Dec 2009

Posted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 9:21 pm Post subject:

Quote:

If a Korean came to your home country to work/study and said, why are all Americans/Brits/Aussies/etc stupid, fat, rude, etc...

Would any of us not comment on it? Or would it be a conflict of interest?

I could see it being difficult to remain impartial.

hiamnotcool

Joined: 06 Feb 2012

Posted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 9:30 pm Post subject:

Captain Corea wrote:

augustine wrote:

Captain Corea wrote:

Why does SR come here? Why does anyone come here? WTF issue is it to you?

I'd guess 95% or (very likely) more of the westerners who come to Korea to teach (or who post on this board) are not of Korean descent. If he is of Korean descent, I think it is absolutely legitimate to infer that there may be a conflict of interest, or a psychologically self-veiled subjective motive, given the history/notoriety of the poster in question. Is it just random happenstance that he wound up in Korea, defensively spamming a Korean discussion board daily? I doubt that's the case.

And one could similarly ask you, "WTF issue is it to you?"

I've got just as many posts as him, yet I'm as pale as they get. Why not call my ethnicity into question? Why is me being White not at the forefront of my posts? Why do people not constantly bring it up when I post?

Oh, wait - they did! On AsiaFinest and KoreanSentry, me being White was used to dismiss my opinions and experiences.

Here, it seems to be the popular trend to dismiss SR's posts because of his ethnicity. That shit has to stop. It's against the TOS and just plain ignorant.

He's welcome to share his thoughts on this forum, just like any other poster. If you don't like his opinions, address them. Attacking the poster, or their race/ethnicity is NOT what this forum is about.

If people want to post their credentials to back up their argument, they need to be open to the possibility that those very credentials might be used to detract from their argument. If you tell me you taught in Japan for 11 years so you know what it's like to Japan I can respect that. If you taught in Japan for 11 years and you start talking to me about what it's like to teach in Korea, expect me to call you on it. It doesn't only work one way, you don't ONLY get credibility from your credentials.

If I was a white kid adopted by a Korean family and I went to the USA, and told all my Korean friends they were imagining things when they said white people discriminated against them it's possible they might tell me I don't understand. I don't think I would fully understand their experience either. I don't think they would be discriminating against me either.

optik404

Joined: 24 Jun 2008

Posted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 9:44 pm Post subject:

I don't think one's ethnicity would fall under the credentials category.

hiamnotcool

Joined: 06 Feb 2012

Posted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 9:51 pm Post subject:

optik404 wrote:

I don't think one's ethnicity would fall under the credentials category.

Age/Sex/Ethincity....they affect perspective.

Next time a girl comes on here and complains about sexual harassment, why don't you tell her how she is imagining things?

Next time an older person comes on here and complains about age discrimination, tell him he is imagining things.

It's about being able to relate to a specific situation. In Korea, ethinicity is very relevant to this. I don't like it, but it's true.

hiamnotcool

Joined: 06 Feb 2012

Posted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 10:00 pm Post subject: Re: Styles

coratheexplorer wrote:

Was it always in fashion to express extreme negativity towards the U.S.A. (in other words, to illogically and unfoundedly hate us) or is this a recent trend?

I can't believe it was always this way. And also I don't know how any thinking person can feel good about being here. No offense intended, GOD BLESS you if you have found a way to make this situation work for you. I mean that. I personally just have realized that in so many ways it is a fundamentally impossible situation. We are essentially set up to fail here in my view..

Yes I am venting. Oh Lordy do I need to vent.

Do you have a few weeks after your contract ends? Maybe you could take a tourist visa. It sounds like you don't really WANT to hate Korea. I would suggest taking some time before you head home and travel around the country as a tourist. Meet some local people that aren't psycho KTs or "seasoned vet" esl teachers that will only try to convince you everything is your fault.

Just learn a few Korean phrases, and when people ask you can tell them you are a tourist NOT and ESL teacher. You will see another side of the country. Not all people are anti-american, but the anti-american people that are here would like you to believe the entire country hates you. The sad truth is they want you to hate Korea too. It isn't true. Just finish up the last few weeks at your school and then relax and go sight seeing or something. You gave it a shot, and you didn't pull a runner. Now you can get on with your life faster and find a job you like.

Steelrails

Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System

Posted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 10:46 pm Post subject:

hiamnotcool wrote:

optik404 wrote:

I don't think one's ethnicity would fall under the credentials category.

Age/Sex/Ethnicity can affect perspective, but they are not grounds to dismiss someone's judgment. Can you dismiss someone's testimony in a court of law because of their ethnicity?

Contrary to your perception, A majority of Koreans don't mistake me for a Korean and very rapidly are able classify my as American, for goodness sakes, most of my 1st grade students can get this concept.

For one thing, the way I naturally carry myself is a giveaway. Just as many Asians can differentiate between Chinese/Japanese/Korean in part by appearance, but also by dress and behavioral cues, so too with me being from overseas. In fact, there are numerous times where people addressed me in English, alone, and before I even opened my mouth or after uttering a simple word.

Did it ever occur to you that sometimes it results in me being treated worse? Sometimes, depending on the person, it might result in me being treated better. Most times, it doesn't change things. A nice person is a nice person, a jerk is a jerk. And certainly to suggest that somehow "I can't possible get it" and that my opinions are inherently biased and invalid (while somehow yours are not) is ridiculous.

Quote:

Next time a girl comes on here and complains about sexual harassment, why don't you tell her how she is imagining things?

But men still give advice, sit on juries, and testify when it comes to such cases and are free to do so without the accusation that their testimony is invalid because they are a man. Just as women can participate in a "man's issue" case as judge, lawyer, and attorney.

Quote:

If I was a white kid adopted by a Korean family and I went to the USA, and told all my Korean friends they were imagining things when they said white people discriminated against them it's possible they might tell me I don't understand. I don't think I would fully understand their experience either. I don't think they would be discriminating against me either.

But sometimes they are misinterpreting discrimination as something else. For example, many feel that Affirmative Action and admissions policies at universities are both discriminatory, and even worse, sponsored by the government and evidence of structural racism against Asians.

But of course when one understands the history of Affirmative Action (American culture is special, please try to understand) and why it was brought about, one understands that there is a different side to the story.

Likewise with "racist" portrayals of Asian characters, say in a show like South Park or Family Guy. Some may scream "That's Racist!". Others would point out how those shows are equal opportunity offenders.

Some might even go so far as to point out similar situations which take place "back home". Why is Tiger Woods not considered "Asian"? Well, why is Hines Ward not considered 'Korean'?

Some of us have dealt with both sides and have also had the experience of being in the middle between two hemispheres. Isn't that experience and understanding worth something as well? Might that not make one's interpretations of events just as valid? Isn't understanding the motivations of "the other side" just as important as sympathizing with "the home team"? Why is it viewed in such a way as us vs. them?

Regardless, the notion that my opinions are less valid because of my ethnicity I regard as pure garbage.

hiamnotcool

Joined: 06 Feb 2012

Posted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 10:59 pm Post subject:

Steelrails wrote:

hiamnotcool wrote:

optik404 wrote:

I don't think one's ethnicity would fall under the credentials category.

No, I know adopted Koreans have a hard time here in their own way. I have some friends that are adopted and they don't have it easy here, in fact they seem to have it worse than the average NET in a lot of ways. I'm not dismissing your opinion entirely, I'm just saying it is something to be taken into consideration. Actually in this thread I don't think it makes a difference because it's about Anti-Americanism, and you are an American. Ethnicity really doesn't have anything to do with that. I only get upset when it may be a case of racial discrimination, I think you may not have the full picture when it comes to that and you come off as a bit naive.

Steelrails

Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System

Posted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 11:15 pm Post subject:

hiamnotcool wrote:

I only get upset when it may be a case of racial discrimination, I think you may not have the full picture when it comes to that and you come off as a bit naive.

Race is seldom, pardon the term, a black and white issue. Many people have varying shades of grey when it comes to race and racism. In my experience, the personal interaction between the two parties usually supersedes their views on race. I have known some pretty racist folks who nonetheless would have really close friends of the race they disliked and would back them up over people of their own race if it came to a fight. It was just that people of the race they didn't like, who lived up to their racist expectations and views, that they really hated. Mostly strangers.

Even in policy decisions, many had their view of a policy in theory and a policy in practice. Someone might be against affirmative action, but many times they'd have a friend of a different race who they felt "deserved a break" and a hand up for doing things "the right way".

I think, thinking of racism and racial attitudes as such easy, black & white matters is naive. I think understanding that things can be very complex and that things can be a two-way street is a much more realistic understanding.

Patrick Bateman

Joined: 21 Apr 2009
Location: Lost in Translation

Posted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 11:21 pm Post subject:

hiamnotcool wrote:

I only get upset when it may be a case of racial discrimination, I think you may not have the full picture when it comes to that and you come off as a bit naive.

By your logic, that factors such as sex/age/ethnicity detrimentally and irrevocably impact one's perspective, how could anyone get the full picture of...anything, but especially something such as racial discrimination?

Burndog

Joined: 17 Feb 2008

Posted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 11:30 pm Post subject:

So...we still revert back to calling people 'gyopo' and 'apologist' every time they refuse to drink the 'Koreans should thank us for saving their a$#@s!' coolaid? Great. I'm Australian and have never had any issue with Americans...except for in my 3rd month in Korea when some loud mouth demanded that me and my friend (British) express gratitude because without him we'd all be speaking German. Insipid stuff. Generally I think that Koreans, Americans, Australians, and generally every other place on the planet has roughly the same proportion of people who are good/bad/otherwise...and if I've met people who love Australia, and people who hate it...they're all correct of course. Australia is the best and worst place in the world...as well as being entirely in between. I'm not a Gyopo...but may be something of an apologist for just about anywhere.

IlIlNine

Joined: 15 Jun 2005
Location: Gunpo, Gyonggi, SoKo

Posted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 12:17 am Post subject: Re: Styles

coratheexplorer wrote:

We are essentially set up to fail here in my view..

Where you are is what you make of it. There are many examples of non-Koreans here who are, in fact, successful and happy with their lives here.

hiamnotcool

Joined: 06 Feb 2012

Posted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 2:09 am Post subject:

Steelrails wrote:

hiamnotcool wrote:

I only get upset when it may be a case of racial discrimination, I think you may not have the full picture when it comes to that and you come off as a bit naive.

Those people are indeed racist. More racist? Less racist? Maybe, but they are still racist. I get sick of hearing that I am "one of the good ones" here. I have had friends like that in the past but I no longer do. It shouldn't have to prove that I'm not one of the "bad white people" nor should any minority have to prove to me that they aren't one of the "(insert racial slur)" to me. That's just ridiculous. I know it's not going to change, but I wont' excuse it like you are trying to.

hiamnotcool

Joined: 06 Feb 2012

Posted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 2:11 am Post subject: Re: Styles

IlIlNine wrote:

coratheexplorer wrote:

We are essentially set up to fail here in my view..

Where you are is what you make of it. There are many examples of non-Koreans here who are, in fact, successful and happy with their lives here.

Some people are set up to fail here. That is true. I haven't been and maybe you haven't been, but it does happen to foreigners when they come here. I landed in an ideal situation and I loved it. I had friends that weren't so lucky. I don't blame them for circumstances that were out of their control.

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