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Privateer
Joined: 31 Aug 2005
Location: Easy Street.
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 Posted: Sun Mar 31, 2013 7:16 pm Post subject: |
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| It seems the foreigner/Korean approach to learning Korean/English is the opposite in that foreigners/Koreans tend to focus on grammar/vocabulary, leaving them able/unable to make simple sentences, but unable/able to read lengthy Korean/English texts. But both of them have funny accents. |
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salutbonjour
Joined: 22 Jan 2013
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| Posted: Sun Mar 31, 2013 8:09 pm Post subject: |
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I know many people who studied Korean up to a TOPIK level 3 (maybe around 30), it took around 4 to 6 semesters of Korean full-time (with 4 semesters per year). It took me a year.
As others have mentioned, passive vocabulary learning is the hard part. I struggle to keep up with my studies and only learn at most 4-5 words a week nowadays. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Sun Mar 31, 2013 10:09 pm Post subject: |
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| World Traveler wrote: |
[
Korea defender TheUrbanMyth is like schwa. He has lived in rural Korea for 13 years and will almost certainly be there for many more years to come. (He said he wouldn't mind retiring here.) His Korean level is solidly beginner. (He boasts about knowing the phonetics of 한글 and being able to order off a menu...but after 13 years in the sticks, that's nothing to brag about really.) In fact, if he ever scores low intermediate on the Test of Proficiency in Korean, I will leave these forums for good. (TUM has said he dislikes me and wishes I will stop posting here. Now is his big chance to achieve that. 一石二鳥.)
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Just a few things you have in error (not that you have just a few errors....you are pretty wrong about most things..but these are the glaring ones.)
First of all I have never "boasted" about my Korean level or anything like that. I was asked a question about it and I responded as honestly as I could judge my progression. And I have not lived all 13 years here in the sticks (Daejeon and Ulsan are hardly "the sticks".
And no I don't dislike you personally...I've never met you. I dislike your POSTS, because they're usually filled with errors and mistaken assumptions...much like this one. But no I don't dislike you, you provide comic relief if nothing else. Nor do I wish you would stop posting here, but I wish you would stop posting the TYPE of stuff you do/at least check the facts.
Lastly as for my Korean ability...I've not bothered studying it much beyond the stage where I can make myself understood/understand in daily life. (It's made my life easier) but at this point I don't see much more financial/personal benefit in learning more about the language...when looking at it from a benefit-cost point of view.
(BTW I'm Canadian and grew up with both French and English so that shoots down your theory.)
I will say this about it though. I know quite a bit more than just
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| " knowing the phonetics of 한글 and being able to order off a menu." |
I can use it in class (when a student just doesn't understand the English word...although I try to limit that) and I can use it in most daily conversations. I've even been told I "sound Korean" by a Korean speaker...I think it was meant as a compliment.
But here's some free advice. Instead of worrying about what other people do or can not do and putting them down for it why not devote all that free time to studying Korean? It just might open a few more doors employment-wise for you (as it did for me)? |
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Swampfox10mm
Joined: 24 Mar 2011
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| Posted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 12:29 am Post subject: |
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Just an update.... Daughter is now 3 and uses English and Korean. I work with her a lot in English and she gets a lot of Korean from everyone else.
I recommend downloading: Leapfrog, SuperWhy, Dora The Explorer, Blues Clues, Diego, and other learning-based cartoons. Netflix has all of these and more. Using a VPN service to access an overseas acct is priceless. |
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Captain Corea
Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 1:35 am Post subject: |
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Yup, the iPad has helped my girl tons in learning English. The ones you mentioned, plus as she gets older, others.
Right now she's hooked on the 80s version of Muppet Babies.  |
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World Traveler
Joined: 29 May 2009
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| Posted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 3:02 am Post subject: |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| Just a few things you have in error (not that you have just a few errors....you are pretty wrong about most things..but these are the glaring ones.) |
Ah, so you are calling me a liar (or at the very least factually inaccurate). I'd say that applies more to you than me. What are all these errors I made? As you like to nitpick the pettiest things, I'm sure if anything was the slightest bit off, you would have instantly pointed it out.
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| First of all I have never "boasted" about my Korean level |
False! You do it all the time. You say, "In my thirteen years in Korea, I've made good use of my time and worked my way up by getting better at Korean, among other things." Yeah man, you really worked your way up. That's why you are at the beginner level in Korean (despite what you may claim) and you are still working as a teaching assistant. You are unbelievably pretentious, and as diver said, a bully.
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| Nor do I wish you would stop posting here |
O RLY? You said this in the past. Want to bet you didn't? How about, if I find the post, you quit posting for a month. Deal?
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| Lastly as for my Korean ability...I've not bothered studying it much beyond the stage where I can make myself understood/understand in daily life. (It's made my life easier) but at this point I don't see much more financial/personal benefit in learning more about the language...when looking at it from a benefit-cost point of view. |
Coming from someone who claims to know the culture so well and love Korea so much, that seems odd, but to each their own.
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| (BTW I'm Canadian and grew up with both French and English so that shoots down your theory.) |
You grew up fully bilingual at a young age (not just had some French classes in school)? Well, this is a big advantage...but not everyone chooses to utilize this advantage...and even with the leg up, learning Korean takes a TON of time, no matter who you are...but obviously having a much lower opportunity cost is preferable.
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| I've even been told I "sound Korean" |
If you're curious about your actual ability, take the TOPIK test. My offer still stands.
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| But here's some free advice. Instead of worrying about what other people do or can not do and putting them down for it why not devote all that free time to studying Korean? It just might open a few more doors employment-wise for you (as it did for me)? |
Your beginner level Korean opened some doors employment wise? That's good. I'm pretty sure my Korean is better than yours. I'm glad you and I made this post. Now you will have to stop bragging about how good your Korean is. (And it's really not, given the amount of time you've been here.) And should I stop worrying about other people and putting them down? Sure. OK, I will stop being insulting towards others if you agree to do the same. Can you do it? |
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mithridates
Joined: 03 Mar 2003
Location: President's office, Korean Space Agency
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| Posted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 3:46 am Post subject: |
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| Captain Corea wrote: |
Yup, the iPad has helped my girl tons in learning English. The ones you mentioned, plus as she gets older, others.
Right now she's hooked on the 80s version of Muppet Babies. |
What does she think of Fraggle Rock? |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 4:13 am Post subject: |
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| mithridates wrote: |
| Captain Corea wrote: |
Yup, the iPad has helped my girl tons in learning English. The ones you mentioned, plus as she gets older, others.
Right now she's hooked on the 80s version of Muppet Babies. |
What does she think of Fraggle Rock? |
Great children's show, but the no-eyes fraggle who is obsessed with doing laundry reminds me so much of the common worker-consumer that it is depressing.
The best children's show, however, is Count Duckula. It's so surreal that I still think about it sometimes. A dynasty of vicious, vampire ducks! |
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Captain Corea
Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 4:39 am Post subject: |
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| mithridates wrote: |
| Captain Corea wrote: |
Yup, the iPad has helped my girl tons in learning English. The ones you mentioned, plus as she gets older, others.
Right now she's hooked on the 80s version of Muppet Babies. |
What does she think of Fraggle Rock? |
Wasn't the hit I was hoping for. The Cosby Show, on the other hand, is her staple. She's gotten to asking why we don't have the last name Huxtable. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 4:45 pm Post subject: |
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| World Traveler wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| t;]First of all I have never "boasted" about my Korean level |
(1) False! You do it all the time. You say, "In my thirteen years in Korea, I've made good use of my time and worked my way up by getting better at Korean, among other things."
(2)
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| Nor do I wish you would stop posting here |
O RLY? You said this in the past. Want to bet you didn't? How about, if I find the post, you quit posting for a month. Deal?
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| Lastly as for my Korean ability...I've not bothered studying it much beyond the stage where I can make myself understood/understand in daily life. (It's made my life easier) but at this point I don't see much more financial/personal benefit in learning more about the language...when looking at it from a benefit-cost point of view. |
(3) Coming from someone who claims to know the culture so well and love Korea so much, that seems odd, but to each their own.
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| (BTW I'm Canadian and grew up with both French and English so that shoots down your theory.) |
You grew up fully bilingual at a young age (not just had some French classes in school)? Well, this is a big advantage...but not everyone chooses to utilize this advantage...and even with the leg up, learning Korean takes a TON of time, no matter who you are...but obviously having a much lower opportunity cost is preferable.
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| I've even been told I "sound Korean" |
If you're curious about your actual ability, take the TOPIK test. My offer still stands.
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| But here's some free advice. Instead of worrying about what other people do or can not do and putting them down for it why not devote all that free time to studying Korean? It just might open a few more doors employment-wise for you (as it did for me)? |
(4) Now you will have to stop bragging about how good your Korean is.
I'm pretty sure my Korean is better than yours. |
(numbers are mine...numbered for clarification.)
1. Find the post with this direct quote in it please. You put it in quotes so it must be a direct quote of mine. Link please?
2. It was in response to the content of your posts. If you would post something other then say complaining about money or how it is better back in the U.S or how the won is falling...then have at it.
3. I'm fairly sure I never claimed to love Korea. Link please?
4. When complaining about people bragging you might not want to do that in the same breath as saying "I'm pretty sure my Korean is better than yours."
Congratulations on your Korean ability BTW. |
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Zyzyfer
Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Location: who, what, where, when, why, how?
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| Posted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 11:46 pm Post subject: |
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| World Traveler wrote: |
| Apologist lifer Zyzyfer can't speak Korean. (I know this because he once tried to type a simple sentence in Korean and did it incorrectly.) How long has he been in Korea? Not sure, but he once said he has lived in Korea more than ten years. |
I would like to ask you to not indirectly refer to me in your posts. Or if you want to draw up a little biography about me and how my Korean is terrible in comparison to the amount of time I have been in the country, and call me an apologist, at least produce something more substantial than this little blurb above. It's not hard, I'm not exactly secretive and I post far more than someone like lawyertood, yet you know so much about the guy, in a way more than I do (and I know him in person).
On a related note, I honestly can't tell whether you are trying to make fun of long-termers with a low command of Korean, or whether you are using their cases to prove your underlying point (that Korean is more difficult for many adults than other languages). Maybe if you laid off the spite and animosity just a bit and go with some more neutral language and descriptions, you might get some honest answers like Captain Corea supplied a bit earlier in this thread.
But oh that's right, everyone's a jerk to you, so it's time for you to take off the gloves and pound back. Meh, if you think that's the right solution, whatever. I'm trying to play along here.
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The reason I have not made any attempts to get better at Korean is because I have been working 9-6, Monday to Friday, since 2005. By the time I get home and eat, I do not have time to make more than a fleeting effort at studying, and as I personally have found that unsatisfactory for learning the language in the past, I decided it was not worth the effort. The self-study materials I have dealt with in the past were convoluted and seemed counter-productive to learning, and no one has introduced me to any alternatives. Like you, many long-termers I have known here have not exactly...mastered...Korean.
Plus, I feel kind of lazy at 9 PM.
It would be nice to arrange my schedule in order to take some classes that are more focused on encouraging conversational practice. But my schedule isn't flexible.
A third variable is that I have never intended to be here as long as I have. I went back to the US "for good" once in 2004 and got sucked back in over relationship issues and poor planning for my return. I was supposed to leave again in 2007 but stayed for personal reasons. Same thing again in 2009. I know my days are numbered here, but the expected time of departure is vague (for reasons I do not feel inclined to discuss on a public message board).
As for your bet, I have no interest in getting people banned or anything of that nature, but so long as there isn't some sort of strict time limit, I'll take you up on the challenge. I've been slowly shaking off the lazy and am hoping to start studying Korean soon. |
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World Traveler
Joined: 29 May 2009
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| Posted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 7:19 pm Post subject: |
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What makes you think I haven't talked in person to the person referenced above? (I have.)
Maybe mentioning people in this way (even if it is just by their screen name) is in poor taste. I actually felt bad about it. I don't like personal attacks. It doesn't make me feel good to make them.
The reason I made the post is because when I said children have the capacity to learn learn languages better than adults, people told me I didn't know what I was talking about. So I used specific examples (so people couldn't accuse me of lying).
Brains change in people as they grow up. Children can't do calculus. After (and during) adolescence, people become capable of having abstract thought.
Children are not mini adults. They are different. Their brain is different.
If you want to aim for low intermediate as a challenge, go for it. There is no time limit or expiration date for any of the twenty people mentioned to break out of the beginner level.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1f54HZCk2Cc
BTW, I never whined about or cared in the least about "everyone being a jerk to me". It's not everyone. Just a few vapid middle aged weirdos who have absolutely no life. The reason I tell you your posts suck (and are boring and lacking substance) is in hope you will make less (and you do make thousands of them).
PPS- I am beginning to feel like typing on this board is a waste of my time. I hope one of the lifers gets beyond the beginner level. Leaving this site would benefit my life. (I am addicted.) |
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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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| Posted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 3:55 am Post subject: |
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Well WT, since you seem to be unable to handle any discussion that involves someone making a counter point and since you have taken on a nasty habit of taking indirect and thinly disguised low blows at other posters in your posts, perhaps you should follow up on what you just said and leave the site.
At the very least, take a break from it and get your head in order about it.
You main problem here, and I say this in all kindness, is that you assume a lot about everyone else who posts here. You also tend to miss-read or to ignore the counter points made by others, especially when they contradicts some of what you said.
I wish you the best of luck with your Korean studies and hope you reach a level you are happy with. I know many westerners who reached advanced level and some that reached fluency. They all have one thing in common: a high level of motivation (ie reason to learn). |
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World Traveler
Joined: 29 May 2009
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| Posted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 7:06 am Post subject: |
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Giving me some advice? How kind of you. I will return the favor and give you some words of wisdom:
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Now go back to your cozy Vancouver life with your clean streets, tolerant society and pluralist ethos. Leave Korean matters to those who know what they are talking about, and who have to deal with Korea on a daily basis. You have nothing to offer this forum. Steelrails has the apologist angle covered for you. Now isn't there a nice picnic at Stanley Park that has your name on it?
Honestly, it's time to let go. |
Unbelievable you're trying to take the moral high road. You insult people all the time, to a much greater degree than I do. (And I don't even insult people at all unless they insult me first.)
Remember calling me an "idiot"? Remember saying my posts are "incoherent rants"?
You are the biggest pharisee on this site. (Well, you and madoka both.)
Care to point out specifically what I misread? What insightful counterpoint did I ignore?
If I'm wrong about any of the people mentioned being at a beginner level, I will leave the site. I've said that. No one has yet to prove me wrong, though schwa and TUM might say they are not at the beginner level although the TOPIK test would say so. Heck, if they can function at the beginner level and enjoy their lives here that's fine.
YOU said if someone is raising Korean kids in Korea, then a high level of Korean is a MUST. You said that. And you capitalized "must". That's more insulting than the point I'm making. In the past you ridiculed people with mixed raced children who couldn't speak Korean. Did it ever occur to you some people cannot learn Korean as easily as you can? Did it ever occur to you motivation is not the only factor in Korean language success? I think that's a concept you aren't grasping.
What if I said, "I know many jacked and muscular guys. One thing they all had in common was a high motivation to get bigger."? That statement would be true. But it would also be missing something. Motivation is important in this case (and necessary), but so is genetics (most important), steroids, diet, good training knowledge, etc.
Being bilingual at young age almost certainly gave you a big advantage for learning Korean. You will not acknowledge this.
You made fun of Dodge7 (in a very distasteful way, implying he is unintelligent) for not being able to speak Korean.
Some people have better talent for learning languages. No need to look down on others who don't have the ability you have.
In fact, what you wrote in the past is the main reason I posted what I did in this thread.
Maybe some people can learn from what I wrote. |
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Zyzyfer
Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Location: who, what, where, when, why, how?
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| Posted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 6:10 pm Post subject: |
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| World Traveler wrote: |
| If you want to aim for low intermediate as a challenge, go for it. There is no time limit or expiration date for any of the twenty people mentioned to break out of the beginner level. |
Wheels are in motion with that.
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| The reason I tell you your posts suck (and are boring and lacking substance) is in hope you will make less (and you do make thousands of them). |
Am I supposed to care what you think of my posts?
edit: I'll put it to you simply. I won't respond to you in the future, you stop taking indirect snipes at me in the fashion used in this thread. Keep doing the indirect crap and I will direct my boring and substance-lacking posts in your direction. |
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