|
Korean Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
CentralCali
Joined: 17 May 2007
|
 Posted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 12:41 pm Post subject: |
 |
|
| Yo, Steels! One of the crackpot "theories" is that the government let the attacks happen on purpose. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
|
| Posted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 12:56 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| CentralCali wrote: |
| Yo, Steels! One of the crackpot "theories" is that the government let the attacks happen on purpose. |
That's the most credible theory, considering that its the simplest. It kind of clashes with the cover-up allegations, though, because there would be very little to cover-up. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
CentralCali
Joined: 17 May 2007
|
| Posted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 1:08 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| None of the crackpot theories is credible. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
|
| Posted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 2:34 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| CentralCali wrote: |
| Yo, Steels! One of the crackpot "theories" is that the government let the attacks happen on purpose. |
I'm ambivalent on LIHOP. I don't have enough info one way or the other to prove or discredit it.
It certainly doesn't take very much to pull it off. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
CentralCali
Joined: 17 May 2007
|
| Posted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 3:06 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Actually it does. "The government" isn't just one big monolith, with all of its members--including quite a number of military and police--marching in lock-step. "The government let it happen" theory is beneath stupid. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
|
| Posted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 6:03 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| CentralCali wrote: |
| Actually it does. "The government" isn't just one big monolith, with all of its members--including quite a number of military and police--marching in lock-step. "The government let it happen" theory is beneath stupid. |
I'd imagine that one could bury/ignore the report in the bureacratic muck allowing for the attack to potentially happen (though not bettin 100% on its success). As the government tends to miss and muck up a fair amount of stuff anyway.
But I'm not a strong supporter of LIHOP either way. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
|
| Posted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 6:51 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| CentralCali wrote: |
| Actually it does. "The government" isn't just one big monolith, with all of its members--including quite a number of military and police--marching in lock-step. "The government let it happen" theory is beneath stupid. |
Completely agree. An "allowed" attack with the subsequent cover-up would of necessity have dozens if not hundreds of people in the know. More than a decade on...nobody has blown the whistle or said a word. Instead we have a number of crackpots blabbing on and on about how they "KNOW" what happened...as if they were there and had privy inside information.
It's just a bunch of nobodies trying to make themselves seem important. And the more insignificant they are in real life...the louder and longer they will yell and cling to their private fantasy. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
|
| Posted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 9:51 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I'm not so sure it would take THAT much to let it happen on purpose. A report would probably get sent up the stream at NSA/DoD/FBI/CIA/State. There are probably hundreds or thousands of reports a year about alleged threats. Those agencies probably prioritize some and some inevitably get dismissed as 'not credible' or put on the back burner. I don't think it would take hundreds of people to take a report about an alleged plot and bury it in the muck, at least to the point of giving it a fair chance to succeed (the conspirators would likely understand that there would always be a chance that local law enforcement or other investigations would uncover and halt it).
But again, I don't believe that is what happened, however I don't see the kind of overwhelming evidence to completely rule it out like Controlled Demolition, which might was well be on the same level of "Jerry Bruckheimer accidentally blew up the WTC while filming his latest movie" as a conspiracy. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
wintermute
Joined: 01 Oct 2007
|
| Posted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 10:00 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Steelrails wrote: |
| I may lack sufficient information to know whether or not the government let the attack happen on purpose, I do however, have sufficient information to rule out controlled demolition and other "made it happen" theories. |
That, exactly, is the point I am arguing against; I don't believe you do!
| Quote: |
| -I don't even have to. I'm not out here to prove the government's story 100%. I AM here to discredit the crackpot theories out there, and you just need basic logic, fact-checking, and critical thinking to do that. |
This must be the third time: what theories? They are "out there", so it should be a simple matter to link to them. The reason I don't believe you "have sufficient information to rule out controlled demolition and other 'made it happen' theories ", is because in this whole thread, you have made absolutely no effort to relate your arguments to anything "out there".
I might believe that claim if you phrased your efforts outwards at real theories and arguments, instead of a vague generalization of "Controlled Demolition Theories" the definition of which is known only to you.
That is why your claim to be able to comprehensively rule out controlled demolition is absurd, when all you've presented is your opinion of the validity of your idea of what controlled demolition theories are.
| Quote: |
| You do realize that I could put to together a clip featuring music and edited clips and make it look like the whole thing was a conspiracy by Jay-Z, right? "Prior to 2001, Jay-Z was XsnipX Mastermind of 9/11. It's all out there. You just have to open your eyes man. Stop assuming, start questioning. Don't believe the government lies. Connect the dots. It's all supported in journals like Critical Reform for America's People. |
Amusing, but complicated and secret conspiracies for a few to profit at the expense of the many happen all the time!.
The desire to investigate and expose them is a worthy goal. We should focus improving techniques and tools to do so. By all means, call out bad logic, hidden agendas etc. That just gets us closer to the truth. But summary judgements based on opinions but masquerading as fact work against that goal by seeking to shut down lines of investigation without cause. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
wintermute
Joined: 01 Oct 2007
|
| Posted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 10:17 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| CentralCali wrote: |
| Actually it does. "The government" isn't just one big monolith, with all of its members--including quite a number of military and police--marching in lock-step. "The government let it happen" theory is beneath stupid. |
But wouldn't the fact that it "isn't just one big monolith", make it easier to pull off, not harder?
Would it help to think of it as "elements of the government let it happen"? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
|
| Posted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 11:36 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
That, exactly, is the point I am arguing against; I don't believe you do! |
You mean besides the lack of any physical evidence for thermite or explosives? Besides the engineering models which demonstrate how the support columns were weakened and buckled? Besides the sheer logistical complexity that such an operation would entail so as to make it nonviable and dependent upon science fiction? Besides the sheer illogic of the whole proposition?
What evidence is there exactly for CD? A lot of circumstance and 6 degrees of Kevin Bacon, untested theories put out by crackpot theorists and fringe scientists.
| Quote: |
| This must be the third time: what theories? |
The usual lot of them- Remote planes/Explosives planted/Thermite/A missile hit the Pentagon/Holograms/Missile Pods/Shoot-down of United 93/etc.
| Quote: |
| But summary judgements based on opinions but masquerading as fact work against that goal by seeking to shut down lines of investigation without cause. |
Did it ever occur to you that that is what you are doing by having irrational doubt towards the official version and by embracing these conspiracy theories?
Have you even noticed the degree to which all these videos lie and distort the truth to make THEIR case? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
CentralCali
Joined: 17 May 2007
|
| Posted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 4:34 am Post subject: |
|
|
| wintermute wrote: |
| CentralCali wrote: |
| Actually it does. "The government" isn't just one big monolith, with all of its members--including quite a number of military and police--marching in lock-step. "The government let it happen" theory is beneath stupid. |
But wouldn't the fact that it "isn't just one big monolith", make it easier to pull off, not harder?
Would it help to think of it as "elements of the government let it happen"? |
Nope. Absolutely incorrect. What would make it harder to pull off is the simple fact of so many people actually doing their jobs. You know, military, firefighters, police. All the bogeyman the WONJCTs demonize. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
I'm With You
Joined: 01 Sep 2011
|
| Posted: Thu Nov 07, 2013 12:18 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| CentralCali wrote: |
| Nope. Absolutely incorrect. What would make it harder to pull off is the simple fact of so many people actually doing their jobs. You know, military, firefighters, police. All the bogeyman the WONJCTs demonize. |
I would have thought so, too. But military, firefighters, and police are dumb.
They don't think much.
So to fool them or make them believe that they are nothing more than patriotic cogs in the system would be easy, right?
These are not critical thinking types we are talking about here.
Last edited by I'm With You on Sat Nov 09, 2013 1:25 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
CentralCali
Joined: 17 May 2007
|
| Posted: Thu Nov 07, 2013 3:05 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| I'm With You wrote: |
| CentralCali wrote: |
| Nope. Absolutely incorrect. What would make it harder to pull off is the simple fact of so many people actually doing their jobs. You know, military, firefighters, police. All the bogeyman the WONJCTs demonize. |
I would have thought so, too.
But military, firefighters, and police are dumb.
They don't think much.
So to fool them or make them believe that they are nothing more than patriotic cogs in the system would be easy, right?
These are not critical thinking types we are talking about here. |
On the off-chance that you're not being sarcastic, that's absolutely untrue. All three groups need to be more than unthinking robots. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
I'm With You
Joined: 01 Sep 2011
|
| Posted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 1:24 pm Post subject: |
|
|
No, I'm not being sarcastic - the dumbest and scariest people I've ever met were in policing and the military. Firefighters are the most intelligent of the group, I agree.
Corbett, a Japan based Canadian English teacher does some analysis on Chomsky. Some of you here may be interested in this piece.
Meet Noam Chomsky: Academic Gatekeeper |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
