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guavashake
Joined: 09 Nov 2013
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 Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2014 1:23 am Post subject: |
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| jvalmer wrote: |
So how does refusing the escaping captain and crew to board the rescue ship, who wouldn't know what to do anyways, help? |
A loaded question is a question based on a false premise or supposition, and yours is a loaded question.
In other words, you are changing my story. This is what I said...
In this particular slow motion ferry sinking, no, I would not remove the entire crew from the ship at the time they were removed, leaving the passengers unattended.
I would not give the captain and crew priority.
In addition to what was done, what was not done is significant.
As I explained, there were things that could have been done by people standing by that would have resulted in the rescue of all passengers. |
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jvalmer
Joined: 06 Jun 2003
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| Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2014 3:15 am Post subject: |
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| guavashake wrote: |
| jvalmer wrote: |
So how does refusing the escaping captain and crew to board the rescue ship, who wouldn't know what to do anyways, help? |
A loaded question is a question based on a false premise or supposition, and yours is a loaded question.
In other words, you are changing my story. This is what I said...
In this particular slow motion ferry sinking, no, I would not remove the entire crew from the ship at the time they were removed, leaving the passengers unattended.
I would not give the captain and crew priority.
In addition to what was done, what was not done is significant.
As I explained, there were things that could have been done by people standing by that would have resulted in the rescue of all passengers. |
From the pictures I've seen when the captain was taken off, the boat was already on it's side. And nobody else was around. A rescuer would not be able to easily navigate the inside of the boat in that state.
http://blog.naver.com/seojoo77?Redirect=Log&logNo=30188997378
The boat was basically fully submerged in 2 hours.
Yes, I do agree the captain and crew should not be given priority. But, it doesn't help refusing them boarding when there is nobody visibly outside at that point with the boat in that condition. And who knows what information the rescuers knew at that point. And in the photo, there is nobody around.
The rescuers aren't at fault here. |
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guavashake
Joined: 09 Nov 2013
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| Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2014 4:47 am Post subject: |
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| jvalmer wrote: |
| guavashake wrote: |
| jvalmer wrote: |
So how does refusing the escaping captain and crew to board the rescue ship, who wouldn't know what to do anyways, help? |
A loaded question is a question based on a false premise or supposition, and yours is a loaded question.
In other words, you are changing my story. This is what I said...
In this particular slow motion ferry sinking, no, I would not remove the entire crew from the ship at the time they were removed, leaving the passengers unattended.
I would not give the captain and crew priority.
In addition to what was done, what was not done is significant.
As I explained, there were things that could have been done by people standing by that would have resulted in the rescue of all passengers. |
From the pictures I've seen when the captain was taken off, the boat was already on it's side. And nobody else was around. A rescuer would not be able to easily navigate the inside of the boat in that state.
http://blog.naver.com/seojoo77?Redirect=Log&logNo=30188997378
The boat was basically fully submerged in 2 hours.
Yes, I do agree the captain and crew should not be given priority. But, it doesn't help refusing them boarding when there is nobody visibly outside at that point with the boat in that condition. And who knows what information the rescuers knew at that point. And in the photo, there is nobody around.
The rescuers aren't at fault here. |
Yes,
I understand if you were involved there, the results would be the same, or perhaps worse. |
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Squire
Joined: 26 Sep 2010
Location: Jeollanam-do
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| Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2014 6:29 am Post subject: |
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2203KST: Authorities say people are most likely in the top three levels (3rd, 4th and 5th), no mention of whether they refer to bodies or survivors. Probably both. There have been no searches on the upper two floors and the 3rd level has not been properly searched.
The idea that there might be survivors seems highly improbable to me. What have they been drinking this whole time? Sea water? I suppose there have been reports of people going many days without water but conditions must be pretty awful down there |
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young_clinton
Joined: 09 Sep 2009
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| Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2014 6:50 am Post subject: |
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| They were thinking of pumping oxygen into the ship for any possible passengers that were able to get into air pockets. I think the overall view is that anybody trapped in the ship is no longer alive. This is absolutely mind boggling, an absolute shocking loss of life. It's very difficult to believe that whoever is responsible for rescue operations could not have moved quicker, although it did happen very fast. |
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Squire
Joined: 26 Sep 2010
Location: Jeollanam-do
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| Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2014 6:58 am Post subject: |
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It does seem odd, but then I don't know a thing about diving. Apparently the silt in the water meant divers couldn't see their own hands in front of their faces, but then I would have thought there must be some technology available to help divers get into the ship and have a look around.
I hate the thought that there were people in pockets of air clinging on who have since died because nobody could reach them |
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jvalmer
Joined: 06 Jun 2003
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| Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2014 7:07 am Post subject: |
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| guavashake wrote: |
Yes,
I understand if you were involved there, the results would be the same, or perhaps worse. |
So I disagree with you and go and attack me like this. Totally uncalled for. |
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I'm With You
Joined: 01 Sep 2011
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| Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2014 7:31 am Post subject: |
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Man, this is crazy.
Why can't government rescue resources respond more quickly to these disasters?
Well, if an airliner with 250 people can go missing in 2014, I guess it's not unbelievable. |
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nuthatch
Joined: 21 Feb 2008
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| Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2014 8:20 am Post subject: |
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http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/20/world/asia/pilot-steering-ferry-had-no-experience-in-treacherous-waterway.html?hp
...if at a certain point, after the accident, there is no way to get people out of the sinking ship on its side (see photo as he exits)...except for divers, etc....it seems logical for the captain and crew to leave the boat...
...it also seems that people/societies look for a scapegoat...
...to err is human...I doubt the captain and the crew would want this accident and its death...there intent was not to kill...negligence is another matter entirely...
...therefore, scapegoating the crew with arrest and handcuffs seems a bit too much in a "modern democratic society"...where due process should be going on...okay...start legalities...but innocent until proven guilty...
...and really...to make a mistake is human...and to acknowledge...but this medieval blaming, arresting, suicidal honor garbage is a bit too much in the 21st century...
...the chaos and state of mind of the accident reminded me of the San Francisco airport landing accident a few months ago. |
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metalhead
Joined: 18 May 2010
Location: Toilet
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| Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2014 8:31 am Post subject: |
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| nuthatch wrote: |
...to err is human...I doubt the captain and the crew would want this accident and its death...there intent was not to kill...negligence is another matter entirely...
...therefore, scapegoating the crew with arrest and handcuffs seems a bit too much in a "modern democratic society"...where due process should be going on...okay...start legalities...but innocent until proven guilty...
...and really...to make a mistake is human...and to acknowledge...but this medieval blaming, arresting, suicidal honor garbage is a bit too much in the 21st century...
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Yeah, and I think it's become obvious now that the crew were not trained for an emergency such as this. The captain probably hopped on that rescue boat thinking that more would be on the way (people who know how to deal with such an emergency) - so yeah, definitely a problem with the system. Hopefully now ferry crews will be properly trained in how to deal with crises like this. |
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Stain
Joined: 08 Jan 2014
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| Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2014 9:07 am Post subject: |
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| To be or not to be, that is the question. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2014 9:53 am Post subject: |
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| CentralCali wrote: |
| Got it. Yeah, plenty of people have a, shall we say, interesting concept of military life, including the judicial aspect, all thanks to what they've seen in TV shows and movies, as well as what they've read in print fiction. |
Yeah, this was a fictitious, possibly 3rd world/sci-fi dictator military court image in my mind.
| Quote: |
| The idea that there might be survivors seems highly improbable to me. What have they been drinking this whole time? Sea water? I suppose there have been reports of people going many days without water but conditions must be pretty awful down there |
Yeah, at this point the best you can hope for is that miracle sole survivor, who some how manages to have a large air pocket, some water to deal with the CO2 (not sure on the science of that, but I've heard that its actually good to have some water in there) but not TOO much water so they don't freeze, and a convenient stash of water and food to stay alive. I guess with hundreds of compartments and hundreds of people you might have someone who can beat the odds... |
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Hokie21
Joined: 01 Mar 2011
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| Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2014 10:00 am Post subject: |
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| jvalmer wrote: |
| guavashake wrote: |
Yes,
I understand if you were involved there, the results would be the same, or perhaps worse. |
So I disagree with you and go and attack me like this. Totally uncalled for. |
Don't let him get to you. If guavashake was there he would have righted the ship and saved all 476 passengers without even getting his shoes wet. Haven't you read his posts? He was on a boat once. |
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mayorgc
Joined: 19 Oct 2008
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CentralCali
Joined: 17 May 2007
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| Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2014 11:17 am Post subject: |
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| Hokie21 wrote: |
| jvalmer wrote: |
| guavashake wrote: |
Yes,
I understand if you were involved there, the results would be the same, or perhaps worse. |
So I disagree with you and go and attack me like this. Totally uncalled for. |
Don't let him get to you. If guavashake was there he would have righted the ship and saved all 476 passengers without even getting his shoes wet. Haven't you read his posts? He was on a boat once. |
No, no. He wasn't on a boat. He stayed at a Holiday Inn. |
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