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wanderkind
Joined: 01 Jan 2012
Location: Japan
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 Posted: Thu May 22, 2014 4:23 pm Post subject: |
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| asylum seeker wrote: |
| Queue jumping is one thing that really gets me. I was waiting at a taxi rank last Sunday in the front of a queue of about about eight people and a young douche bag pushes straight through the middle of the line and stands at the front. I tried to give him the benefit of the doubt hoping he was just happening to get picked up by a friend there, but no, sure enough, when the next taxi came he went straight for the door. After trying to be the humble foreigner for many years and putting up with this sort of shit I've decided not to tolerate this kind of antisocial behavior so I told him '다른 사람 먼저 기다리고 있었는데'. Instead of apologizing he tried to give the blank, innocent look, so I called him '개새끼' and went in front of him to get the taxi. Not the most mature response and the taxi driver couldn't understand why I had a problem with queue jumping, saying that there are many taxis anyway, but I still think I was right to do something on principle. |
Well done sir/madam, I applaud you.
| Weigookin74 wrote: |
....
If seven or eight years from now, there's lots of Korean guys in the 6'5" range with the size rules mentality prevelant here, it's probably good to be prepared for that day. (I hope not to still be here then unless I decide to marry or get a really good job offer.)  |
I doubt that's going to be the case. I've only seen 1 or 2 high school students over 6ft in the last couple years, and the one time I saw a few 6'5"/6'6" Korean guys walking around together I'm pretty sure they were on a uni basketball team. My thinking is that virtually all really tall Korean guys become athletes and are too dedicated to their sport/training to go out and muck about drinking / interacting with us foreigners. I've seen tall Korean dudes in the subway or bus terminals, but NEVER once in Itaewon/Hongdae/a bar/out at night.
There are some really tall teachers, but I'd bet most of the really big foreigners you've encountered were US military. They've got some giant kids in there.
Again, I caution being fatalistic in 'It's just a matter of time before it comes to blows'-type thinking. I worry you may streamline the development of situations towards physical conflict by letting limitations on perceived potential outcomes constrain your decision making.
That being said, as mentioned, jiu-jitsu or judo are good choices for what you want. You'll learn a lot of ways to control a person/situation without resorting to blows, which will work in your favour when it comes time to review the CCTV. If it's your word vs theirs though, you're probably screwed regardless. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Thu May 22, 2014 4:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Weigookin74 wrote: |
[ In Korea you aren't allowed to protect yourself. More so if you're a foriegner.
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Both untrue.
Korean law does not require ANYONE Korean or foreigner to stand there and be a punching bag. That is just nonsense.
Let's look at what a couple of Korean lawyers have to say rather than repeating misinformation on Dave's
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Basic principles
“In self-defense, there are three basic principles or requirements involved: imminent threat of harm to the victim or a third party, proportionality, and intent to defend,” Kang Ju-won, a lawyer and member of the Korean Bar Association and the Seoul Bar Association, told Voice. “Here, ‘Imminent threat of harm’ refers to a situation where the threat is not a future threat; ‘proportionality’ refers to an amount of force that is reasonably necessary to prevent the present harm; and ‘intent to defend’ refers to the victim’s intent to use force as a means to defend as opposed to a means of attack.”
Korean courts have often been hesitant in recognizing pleas of self-defense, particularly in cases of mutual violence, such as fights.
“Korean courts have been passive in recognizing the principle of self-defense. Even though defendants contend justification for their crimes in quite many cases, courts precisely study the requirements of self-defense,” said Lee Ji-young, a public defender at the Anyang branch of Suwon District Court.
One reason why justifications of self-defense are rarely invoked successfully, according to Lee, is that the law places the burden of proof on the defendant to prove he was acting to defend himself.
“(He will need) defendant-friendly witnesses and recorded videos, etc., to prove his innocence or self-defense. In reality, defendants are not as skillful at collecting favorable evidence as the prosecution so they lose,” said Lee.
There are signs, however, that prosecutors and courts have been edging toward a more liberal interpretation of the concept. In October, a Prosecution-Citizen Committee decided not to press charges against a woman who bit off part of her would-be rapist’s tongue, recognizing her action to have been a legitimate act of self-defense. The citizens’ committee, introduced in 2010 to reflect public opinion in prosecutorial decisions, is roughly analogous to the grand jury system in the U.S. |
http://www.koreaherald.com/view.php?ud=20121203000521 |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Thu May 22, 2014 4:54 pm Post subject: |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| Weigookin74 wrote: |
[ In Korea you aren't allowed to protect yourself. More so if you're a foriegner.
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Both untrue.
Korean law does not require ANYONE Korean or foreigner to stand there and be a punching bag. That is just nonsense.
Let's look at what a couple of Korean lawyers have to say rather than repeating misinformation on Dave's
| Quote: |
Basic principles
“In self-defense, there are three basic principles or requirements involved: imminent threat of harm to the victim or a third party, proportionality, and intent to defend,” Kang Ju-won, a lawyer and member of the Korean Bar Association and the Seoul Bar Association, told Voice. “Here, ‘Imminent threat of harm’ refers to a situation where the threat is not a future threat; ‘proportionality’ refers to an amount of force that is reasonably necessary to prevent the present harm; and ‘intent to defend’ refers to the victim’s intent to use force as a means to defend as opposed to a means of attack.”
Korean courts have often been hesitant in recognizing pleas of self-defense, particularly in cases of mutual violence, such as fights.
“Korean courts have been passive in recognizing the principle of self-defense. Even though defendants contend justification for their crimes in quite many cases, courts precisely study the requirements of self-defense,” said Lee Ji-young, a public defender at the Anyang branch of Suwon District Court.
One reason why justifications of self-defense are rarely invoked successfully, according to Lee, is that the law places the burden of proof on the defendant to prove he was acting to defend himself.
“(He will need) defendant-friendly witnesses and recorded videos, etc., to prove his innocence or self-defense. In reality, defendants are not as skillful at collecting favorable evidence as the prosecution so they lose,” said Lee.
There are signs, however, that prosecutors and courts have been edging toward a more liberal interpretation of the concept. In October, a Prosecution-Citizen Committee decided not to press charges against a woman who bit off part of her would-be rapist’s tongue, recognizing her action to have been a legitimate act of self-defense. The citizens’ committee, introduced in 2010 to reflect public opinion in prosecutorial decisions, is roughly analogous to the grand jury system in the U.S. |
http://www.koreaherald.com/view.php?ud=20121203000521 |
Uhm, a reading of that article basically comes across as basically telling someone to be a punching bag and there is a lot of wiggle room in that interpretation.
That article does nothing to calm my worries about getting involved in a physical altercation here and how the law might respond. |
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Captain Corea
Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Thu May 22, 2014 4:59 pm Post subject: |
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My thoughts exactly. That article, if anything, tells me how hard a self-defense claim would be.
Let's be honest here - how often does this sort of thing go before a judge? In truth, the "arresting" officer will bring both parties to the station, and try to hash out an agreement.
Seen it happen in almost EVERY small crime/claim setting I've known of personally.
Perhaps, TUM, you may what to read about actual experiences with the police here. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Thu May 22, 2014 5:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| Weigookin74 wrote: |
[ In Korea you aren't allowed to protect yourself. More so if you're a foriegner.
|
Both untrue.
Korean law does not require ANYONE Korean or foreigner to stand there and be a punching bag. That is just nonsense.
Let's look at what a couple of Korean lawyers have to say rather than repeating misinformation on Dave's
| Quote: |
Basic principles
“In self-defense, there are three basic principles or requirements involved: imminent threat of harm to the victim or a third party, proportionality, and intent to defend,” Kang Ju-won, a lawyer and member of the Korean Bar Association and the Seoul Bar Association, told Voice. “Here, ‘Imminent threat of harm’ refers to a situation where the threat is not a future threat; ‘proportionality’ refers to an amount of force that is reasonably necessary to prevent the present harm; and ‘intent to defend’ refers to the victim’s intent to use force as a means to defend as opposed to a means of attack.”
Korean courts have often been hesitant in recognizing pleas of self-defense, particularly in cases of mutual violence, such as fights.
“Korean courts have been passive in recognizing the principle of self-defense. Even though defendants contend justification for their crimes in quite many cases, courts precisely study the requirements of self-defense,” said Lee Ji-young, a public defender at the Anyang branch of Suwon District Court.
One reason why justifications of self-defense are rarely invoked successfully, according to Lee, is that the law places the burden of proof on the defendant to prove he was acting to defend himself.
“(He will need) defendant-friendly witnesses and recorded videos, etc., to prove his innocence or self-defense. In reality, defendants are not as skillful at collecting favorable evidence as the prosecution so they lose,” said Lee.
There are signs, however, that prosecutors and courts have been edging toward a more liberal interpretation of the concept. In October, a Prosecution-Citizen Committee decided not to press charges against a woman who bit off part of her would-be rapist’s tongue, recognizing her action to have been a legitimate act of self-defense. The citizens’ committee, introduced in 2010 to reflect public opinion in prosecutorial decisions, is roughly analogous to the grand jury system in the U.S. |
http://www.koreaherald.com/view.php?ud=20121203000521 |
Uhm, a reading of that article basically comes across as basically telling someone to be a punching bag and there is a lot of wiggle room in that interpretation.
That article does nothing to calm my worries about getting involved in a physical altercation here and how the law might respond. |
It still proves my point that you ARE allowed to defend yourself here.
Sure in an actual court of law you might lose...but that's a risk anywhere as well as back home.
I'm simply refuting the claim that you are not allowed to defend yourself under any circumstances.
And I don't know about any of you guys...but if some idiot was coming at me with a knife and I couldn't get away...I'd do all in my power to put him down hard and worry about the cops later. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Thu May 22, 2014 5:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Captain Corea wrote: |
My thoughts exactly. That article, if anything, tells me how hard a self-defense claim would be.
Let's be honest here - how often does this sort of thing go before a judge? In truth, the "arresting" officer will bring both parties to the station, and try to hash out an agreement.
Seen it happen in almost EVERY small crime/claim setting I've known of personally.
Perhaps, TUM, you may what to read about actual experiences with the police here. |
Well if we are talking about actual experiences with the police here are some more
http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?t=109550&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0
| Quote: |
| I got 400,000 won in blood money, so yes, foreigners do get paid when they are the victim. Negotiations were done with the guy's family. Police weren't involved except for the arrest. |
| Quote: |
Several years ago, this young k-guy(maybe 20) was making some trouble in the bar. He smashed a glass pitcher over a foreign guy's head and was dumb enough to hang around for the cops to show up.
K-guy forked over 800,000 Won that night in order to avoid charges. |
Yes there are xenophobic idiots in the police force. No, the foreigner is not always at fault and yes, you are allowed (within strict guidelines) to defend yourself from a physical attack.
Last edited by TheUrbanMyth on Thu May 22, 2014 5:21 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Captain Corea
Joined: 28 Feb 2005
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