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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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 Posted: Mon Jan 05, 2015 6:27 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="Sister Ray"]
| Steelrails wrote: |
This is exactly the kind of attitude I'm talking about. The only reason one would choose not to drive would be poverty. I must drive or people will think I'm a peasant. What a load of rubbish.
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No, its just been my experience that most people who say they aren't doing something that involves a large, expensive purchase, are often just covering for the fact that they don't have the (disposable) income to purchase such a thing. It's like someone saying "Pfft, why do people have one of those fancy 60 inch plasma TVs and blow so much money on it". Almost invariably, this is a person who doesn't have the loot to drop on such a thing (or the space cuz they live in a one room). However if they were given a $100,000 credit card to furnish a big 3 bedroom apartment, you'd see the 60 inch. Likewise, if you were given a company car, especially if it was a brand new Audi, you'd find cause to drive it.
Some people may buy that "Ohh I'm above it all, that's why I don't have one or use it" crap. I don't.
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| If you want to reduce congestion and improve amenity around popular places like IKEA, Jongno, Gangnam, no amount of road widening and extra parking will do it. An increased focus on transit will. |
But these things cost money. And again, people aren't only coming from Seoul, they are coming from a multitude of directions and communities. For many of those people, public transportation is NOT an efficient means of transport and the government spending hundreds of millions of dollars to build a rail line to a provincial small town in Gyeonggi or Kangwon is not practicable.
Public transport is great for getting around within a city. I usually use it. When I go to other cities, I prefer the KTX. However, if I have to go buy groceries or the weather is inhospitable, I will drive. I can only imagine what someone who has kids and doesn't live withing 5 minutes of a subway station would do. How exactly is a mother supposed to carry 4 bags of groceries, plus a watermelon, in her business clothes, while pushing a stroller and looking after another kid, all going uphill to her house/apartment which is a 10-15 minute walk from the nearest subway?
Lastly, I am not going to waste 45 minutes of my life to take some loopy public transportation route to satisfy someone's notions of aesthetics when I could take a 15 minute drive and get there directly. Time is the most important factor. Comfort is the second. If I save time by driving, I'll drive. If I don't, I'll use public transport. |
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atwood
Joined: 26 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Mon Jan 05, 2015 6:56 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="Steelrails"]
| Sister Ray wrote: |
| Steelrails wrote: |
This is exactly the kind of attitude I'm talking about. The only reason one would choose not to drive would be poverty. I must drive or people will think I'm a peasant. What a load of rubbish.
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No, its just been my experience that most people who say they aren't doing something that involves a large, expensive purchase, are often just covering for the fact that they don't have the (disposable) income to purchase such a thing. It's like someone saying "Pfft, why do people have one of those fancy 60 inch plasma TVs and blow so much money on it". Almost invariably, this is a person who doesn't have the loot to drop on such a thing (or the space cuz they live in a one room). However if they were given a $100,000 credit card to furnish a big 3 bedroom apartment, you'd see the 60 inch. Likewise, if you were given a company car, especially if it was a brand new Audi, you'd find cause to drive it.
Some people may buy that "Ohh I'm above it all, that's why I don't have one or use it" crap. I don't.
| Quote: |
| If you want to reduce congestion and improve amenity around popular places like IKEA, Jongno, Gangnam, no amount of road widening and extra parking will do it. An increased focus on transit will. |
But these things cost money. And again, people aren't only coming from Seoul, they are coming from a multitude of directions and communities. For many of those people, public transportation is NOT an efficient means of transport and the government spending hundreds of millions of dollars to build a rail line to a provincial small town in Gyeonggi or Kangwon is not practicable.
Public transport is great for getting around within a city. I usually use it. When I go to other cities, I prefer the KTX. However, if I have to go buy groceries or the weather is inhospitable, I will drive. I can only imagine what someone who has kids and doesn't live withing 5 minutes of a subway station would do. How exactly is a mother supposed to carry 4 bags of groceries, plus a watermelon, in her business clothes, while pushing a stroller and looking after another kid, all going uphill to her house/apartment which is a 10-15 minute walk from the nearest subway?
Lastly, I am not going to waste 45 minutes of my life to take some loopy public transportation route to satisfy someone's notions of aesthetics when I could take a 15 minute drive and get there directly. Time is the most important factor. Comfort is the second. If I save time by driving, I'll drive. If I don't, I'll use public transport. |
Good common sense post except for the hyperbole.
Many people choose to live below their means, so to say most people who choose not to follow the path of materialism do so due to financial limitations is IMO an overstatement. Some do, obviously, but most may be a stretch.
Another point re public transportation: It's crowded enough as it is. You can barely squeeze into a car at peak hours on the subway and the buses already are a traffic problem. How many more could you reasonably add?
Department stores used to have their own buses, but they were forced to discontinue that practice, IIRC, due to that being a competitive edge. But that could be a short-term answer for Ikea. |
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kingplaya4
Joined: 14 May 2006
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| Posted: Mon Jan 05, 2015 7:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
| kingplaya4 wrote: |
Steelrails and northway, you two can take your arrogance and shove it up your ass. Steelrails don't you work for EPIK or something? Unless either of you are CEOs that do business with Korea, or politicians that have a hand in dealing with trade agreements, you guys have zero room for superiority. I read the American news daily, and I can tell you Korean news stories are hitting the wires weekly now.
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I don't work for EPIK.
I read the news daily too. No one's obsessing over Korea and its trade practices and products the way you are. You act like reading daily American news is some sort of special achievement. Newsflash- Web browsers have this thing called "Speed dial" and I can pull up 6 American news sites in an instant and read their stories, which I do. Thousands of expats here do something similar. I also have a print subscription to the International New York Times.
Newswire? Getting daily American news something special? Do you get daily cables or 3 week old newspapers coming in by zeppelin? What is this the 1940s? "Headline Korea! President Truman promised tough talk today on Korea concerning the importation of auto-mobiles and home moving picture boxes, while urging them to keep up the fight against Communism. And now here's Edward R. Murrow with a special report on the Korean ferry disaster that has been gripping the nation. But first a special message from Chesterfield cigarettes. Sound off for Chesterfield!"
The issue isn't if Korean news stories are hitting the wires, the issue is whether people back home deeply pay attention to them and care. They don't. They don't live in Korea. They just skim over it. The big issues back home are Race and Gay. Not Korean consumer products and trade practices.
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| Please. How long did it take for Hyundai to release a hybrid? |
That statement is about as relevant as "How long did it take for Chrysler to put in airbags?"
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| Whirlpool refrigerators from back in the day are just as good as anything LG makes. |
Not on your energy bill. Yes, they all keep things cold, but today's designs are much more energy efficient.
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| I didn't put any though into typing the word microscope. Korea is getting a lot more attention that it used to, and much of it seems to be negative. That was my point. |
Well if you are poor at making that kind of distinction when you write, maybe you're making mistakes in interpreting distinctions in other things. There's a big difference between "regular news stories about Korea" and "Korea's under the microscope".
And yeah, you sound like you're quite out of date with your product and market "analysis". |
Let's keep this simple for your pea brain. When "nutgate" is followed in the US for almost two weeks with a number of Americans saying they won't fly Korean air, that's bad for Korea.
When the slavery story hits, and a number of Americans say they won't buy Korean products anymore, that's bad for Korea.
Rightly or wrongly, Korean products, with the possible exception of flat screens and smart phones are still perceived to be of poorer quality than Japanese, American or German manufactures. I keep hearing that Hyundai has "caught up" but their resale value and number of mechanical failures per 100 cars shows that they may have surpassed Chrysler but still aren't on par with the best.
There are exceptions, but generally Korean products have competed on price until quite recently. In the case of Hyundai it's been a combination of price and warranty. The new strategy seems to be offer similar goods at a similar price to their competitors, but cram more features in.
I want Korea to succeed. Despite a lot of wasted time in the public schools, I believe they have a highly educated population which is capable of creating a lot of innovations in the future. Maybe some of you geniuses are working for a secret R&D unit for Hyundai and there are things in the pipeline I don't know about, but when they release a hybrid a decade after Toyota, and have yet to release an electric car, they aren't really in the "innovator" category yet.
SteelRails, save your breath or your fingers, I have no interest in what you have to say. Anyone else, feel free. |
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Savant
Joined: 25 May 2007
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| Posted: Mon Jan 05, 2015 7:53 pm Post subject: |
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Any big development should have had a discussion about traffic management but I feel in Korea it would have just gone like this:
Gwangmyeong Officials (GO) meet to discuss the terms of IKEA's design plans and building contract.
IKEA: We've designed our development with parking space for 2000 cars but we expect to receive more than 2,000 vehicles after our initial opening. Do you think the local road network can handle it?
GO: Yes. Sign, please!
IKEA: It seems that other retailers are also going to move into adjoining areas thus increasing traffic volume even more. Will the local Government assist with improvements to the local road network?
GO: Yes. Sign, please!
IKEA: Have you you consulted local residents as to the impact of the construction works and possible future hassle?
GO: Yes. Sign, please! |
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northway
Joined: 05 Jul 2010
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| Posted: Mon Jan 05, 2015 8:45 pm Post subject: |
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| atwood wrote: |
Hyundai sales in the U.S. have decreased recently, supposedly due to the more conservative styling of the current Sonata.
Kia (and Hyundai?) was caught inflating average MPG figues twice. I wonder if that's why the Korean government just charged Chevrolet, Audi and Toyota with doing the same thing. The US actions were in response to consumers. And no one is complaining about the gas mileage they get in their Prius there, yet the Korean government says the numbers are overstated.
Who knows why they suddenly decided to test them? Maybe the continued increase in foreign car sales in Korea has something to to with it.
Samsung and LG smartphones are losing market share to the Chinese phones. They sell a lot of home appliances, but how long will it take for the Chinese to crack that market?
So a weak won it is and a shadow protectionism while it tries to get in on the TPP. |
Hey, I'm not arguing any of these points, nor am I cheerleading for the Korean economy or arguing for the superiority of Korean goods. Nor am I arguing for Korean business ethics. I just think that it screams of emotional baggage to go on about how Korean goods are inferior goods that people only purchase because of price when that really isn't true anymore. Your point about the Chinese needing to catch up would seem to support this point. Korea is losing its competitive advantage across the board, but it's not because other countries are making cheaper goods, it's that they're making goods that can compete on quality. |
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atwood
Joined: 26 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Mon Jan 05, 2015 9:48 pm Post subject: |
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| northway wrote: |
| atwood wrote: |
Hyundai sales in the U.S. have decreased recently, supposedly due to the more conservative styling of the current Sonata.
Kia (and Hyundai?) was caught inflating average MPG figues twice. I wonder if that's why the Korean government just charged Chevrolet, Audi and Toyota with doing the same thing. The US actions were in response to consumers. And no one is complaining about the gas mileage they get in their Prius there, yet the Korean government says the numbers are overstated.
Who knows why they suddenly decided to test them? Maybe the continued increase in foreign car sales in Korea has something to to with it.
Samsung and LG smartphones are losing market share to the Chinese phones. They sell a lot of home appliances, but how long will it take for the Chinese to crack that market?
So a weak won it is and a shadow protectionism while it tries to get in on the TPP. |
Hey, I'm not arguing any of these points, nor am I cheerleading for the Korean economy or arguing for the superiority of Korean goods. Nor am I arguing for Korean business ethics. I just think that it screams of emotional baggage to go on about how Korean goods are inferior goods that people only purchase because of price when that really isn't true anymore. Your point about the Chinese needing to catch up would seem to support this point. Korea is losing its competitive advantage across the board, but it's not because other countries are making cheaper goods, it's that they're making goods that can compete on quality. |
Quality has improved to where it's good enough, but low prices are still a big part of how Korean goods are sold. That's why the exchange rate matters so much.
IMO, until a Korean company comes up with a new product that has the impact of say a Walkman, a product that creates its own category, or a product that is demonstrably the best in its category--"It's a Sony!" Korean products aren't going to get a lot of respect nor are they going to command much brand loyalty.
As for the Chinese, they're doing just what Samsung and LG learned to do by OEMing and then stealing other companies' technology. Washing machines, dryers, refrigerators, microwaves aren't all that complicated to begin with.
And for the record, I didn't post the Chinese "need" to catch up. They have caught up or are catching up.
But you're right that Korean goods are pretty good. |
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northway
Joined: 05 Jul 2010
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| Posted: Mon Jan 05, 2015 10:25 pm Post subject: |
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| atwood wrote: |
| northway wrote: |
| atwood wrote: |
Hyundai sales in the U.S. have decreased recently, supposedly due to the more conservative styling of the current Sonata.
Kia (and Hyundai?) was caught inflating average MPG figues twice. I wonder if that's why the Korean government just charged Chevrolet, Audi and Toyota with doing the same thing. The US actions were in response to consumers. And no one is complaining about the gas mileage they get in their Prius there, yet the Korean government says the numbers are overstated.
Who knows why they suddenly decided to test them? Maybe the continued increase in foreign car sales in Korea has something to to with it.
Samsung and LG smartphones are losing market share to the Chinese phones. They sell a lot of home appliances, but how long will it take for the Chinese to crack that market?
So a weak won it is and a shadow protectionism while it tries to get in on the TPP. |
Hey, I'm not arguing any of these points, nor am I cheerleading for the Korean economy or arguing for the superiority of Korean goods. Nor am I arguing for Korean business ethics. I just think that it screams of emotional baggage to go on about how Korean goods are inferior goods that people only purchase because of price when that really isn't true anymore. Your point about the Chinese needing to catch up would seem to support this point. Korea is losing its competitive advantage across the board, but it's not because other countries are making cheaper goods, it's that they're making goods that can compete on quality. |
Quality has improved to where it's good enough, but low prices are still a big part of how Korean goods are sold. That's why the exchange rate matters so much.
IMO, until a Korean company comes up with a new product that has the impact of say a Walkman, a product that creates its | | | |
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