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Korea or Corea?
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Which do you prefer to use?

Korea

88%

[ 48 ]

Corea

11%

[ 6 ]

Total Votes : 54

Author

Message

Holyjoe

Joined: 03 Mar 2003
Location: Away for a cuppa

Posted: Sun Jun 15, 2003 5:50 am Post subject:

gang ah jee wrote:

well, they did it about 3 years ago when they changed the romanisation system here. Pusan becomes Busan in all future English publications.

They changed the recommended spellings for transliterations, which is a slightly different matter. There's no 'right' or 'wrong' way to spell Busan/Pusan in English as the correct way to spell it is with Korean letters Smile

If Korea were to be renamed Flubberblubberland in the next edition of the Oxford English Dictionary there's not a darned thing they can do about it. Laughing

On the other hand

Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue

Posted: Sun Jun 15, 2003 5:54 am Post subject:

Holyjoe quote: "If they[Korea] were to be renamed Flubberblubberland in the next edition of the Oxford English Dictionary there's not a darned thing they can do about it". Nothing, that is, except point out that no English speakers actually use that word, and then just sit back and watch Oxford's reputation go into the toilet. Last edited by On the other hand on Sun Jun 15, 2003 6:54 am; edited 2 times in total

The Great Wall of Whiner

Joined: 24 Jan 2003
Location: Middle Land

Posted: Sun Jun 15, 2003 6:38 am Post subject:

I almost regret starting this thread... It was a simple question, and not meant for everyone to get all emotional over.

Gord

Joined: 25 Feb 2003

Posted: Sun Jun 15, 2003 8:05 am Post subject:

Holyjoe wrote:

No. My answer was the correct answer. It's Busan, not Pusan. Just like it's Bucheon, not Puchon.

mack the knife

Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: standing right behind you...

Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2003 5:41 am Post subject:

EXACTLY... It's ASSWEEPAY, NOT ASSWIPE...

Holyjoe

Joined: 03 Mar 2003
Location: Away for a cuppa

Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2003 6:23 am Post subject:

Quote:

No. My answer was the correct answer. It's Busan, not Pusan. Just like it's Bucheon, not Puchon.

It's �λ�, not Busan.

And ��õ, not Bucheon.

Neutral

gang ah jee

Joined: 14 Jan 2003
Location: city of paper

Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2003 6:30 am Post subject:

Holyjoe wrote:

Quote:

No. My answer was the correct answer. It's Busan, not Pusan. Just like it's Bucheon, not Puchon.

It's �λ�, not Busan.

And ��õ, not Bucheon.

Neutral

well, i:m in *beep* so there:s no way i can read the korean. Korean words need to have an official convention for spelling in English. that convention is the perogative of the korean administration. if they like flubberlubberland, more power to them.

why don:t keyboards in *beep* have apostrophes in the right place? it:s doing my　亜rgh　野w　意t　chア案下d　ｔ尾　kあんじ

Holyjoe

Joined: 03 Mar 2003
Location: Away for a cuppa

Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2003 7:04 am Post subject:

Switch the document encoding to Korean language and the Hangeul can be displayed properly.

gang ah jee

Joined: 14 Jan 2003
Location: city of paper

Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2003 2:27 am Post subject:

Holyjoe wrote:

Switch the document encoding to Korean language and the Hangeul can be displayed properly. Smile

right. problem is, you can't do that in Japan (as far as i know)

seoulman

Joined: 21 Feb 2003

Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2003 3:58 pm Post subject:

Quote:

Korean words need to have an official convention for spelling in English. that convention is the perogative (sic) of the korean administration. if they like flubberlubberland, more power to them

Not quite. First, I think too many people are mixing apples and oranges here. Let's be clear on this. Korean words and how they are transliterated into roman letters is a different beast from English words which just happen to represent foreign entities, whether or not they are even loosely based on the foreign language. It sounds funny to say it, but Korea is NOT a Korean word. Hangook, Pusan, Kangnam, etc. are Korean words that require transliteration.

Now, let's talk about prerogatives. Neither the transliteration of Korean nor foreign words which denote things Korean can be universally prescribed by Korea (insert any country name here if you think I'm picking on Korea). The MCOT can require the voiced initials consonants (i.e. Gangnam, Busan, etc.) to be used on signage and in publication within Korea, but that's the extent of it. Throughout history, the perceived appropriate roman letter representation was usually chosen by those who had native roman alphabets and not by the "host" country, and there were usually several competing standards. As for foreign words, Korea has absolutely no say in how established foreign words (like "Korea") are spelled, pronounced, etc. Now, if reunification takes place and the name of the country changes, given the times we live in (read PC) the name would likely change worldwide in other languages to reflect the new reality.

About Flubberlubberland, using the logic presented this word would never appear as a transliteration because it doesn't approximate, even remotely, any Korean word. It could very well be a foreign word, however, and in such a case Korea would not have any say in the matter.

Tiger Beer

Joined: 07 Feb 2003

Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2005 7:18 am Post subject:

Holyjoe wrote:

Quote:

No. My answer was the correct answer. It's Busan, not Pusan. Just like it's Bucheon, not Puchon.

It's �λ�, not Busan.

And ��õ, not Bucheon.

Neutral

Wonder why they even called the Pusan and Puchon once upon a time, anyways.

the_beaver

Joined: 15 Jan 2003

Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2005 2:25 pm Post subject:

I weighing in late on this one (thanks TB) but it's Korea with a 'K' because English is a Germanic language and the Germanic languages spell it with a 'K.'

thebum

Joined: 09 Jan 2005
Location: North Korea

Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2005 2:56 pm Post subject:

Quote:

1614 R. C*OCKS Let. 25 Nov. in Diary (1883) II. 270 He was prevented by a Corean Noble-man. 1727 J. G. SCHEUCHZER tr. K��mpfer's Hist. Japan I. 63 The Coreans had been subdued. Ibid. 76 Encompass'd by the Corean sea. 1813 Q. Rev. Oct. 256 Classes and Families of Languages... Tartarian... Corean. 1822 F. SHOBERL tr. Titsingh's Illustr. Japan 323 A Corean Fisherman and his Wife. 1885 E. W. HAMILTON Diary 11 Apr. (1972) II. 834 The idea was broached in the Cabinet of endeavouring to make arrangements with the Chinese and Japanese Governments for our occupying Port Hamilton in Korean territory in the event of war with Russia. 1899 A. H. KEANE Man Past & Present viii. 307 An adaptation of the Chinese symbols to the phonetic expression of the Korean syllables. 1921 [see ANNAMITE a. and n.]. 1966 Listener 24 Mar. 423/2 The Korean people..are genuine Tartars. Ibid., Korea proves that it is possible for a poor Asian country to hope for both bread and freedom. The Koreans value that freedom. 1967 D. S. PARLETT Short Dict. Lang. 70 Agglutinative structure, like Korean, unlike Chinese. 1972 Korea Times 19 Nov. 1/6 Written tests in English, Korean and general knowledge will be held.

It was originally Corea(n), as you can see from these quotes taken from the OED's entry for "Korean". A possiblity I would like to suggest (keep in mind that this is speculation, so don't flame me too much) is that because Japan was open to countries like the USA before Corea Wink

we ended up adopting Japan's spelling of it rather than ��ѹα�'s spelling.

shakuhachi

Joined: 08 Feb 2003
Location: Sydney

Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2005 4:13 pm Post subject:

Homer wrote:

It was Corea before japanese occupation.
It became Korea during japanese rule....

In french its not Korea or Corea its Cor�e.

I think koreans should choose whatever way they prefer...

Homer, you are repeating the old canard that Japan was responsible for the change rather than the English language having consolidated the way people spell things. Since you are dealing in conspiracy theories, why dont you tell us why the Japanese made the change?

shakuhachi

Joined: 08 Feb 2003
Location: Sydney

Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2005 4:22 pm Post subject:

Homer wrote:

Gord...

1) Ahhh..yes... Laughing

Japan changed many things during the colonization period and the spelling of Korea seems to have been one of them. It was a singular policy but it seems it was applied none the less.

Perhaps you need a source Gordie?
well here it is pal:

…honor the more natural rendering commonly used in the English-speaking world prior to the Japanese annexation and colonialization of Corea beginning in 1905.
American and English books published during the latter half of the 19th century generally referred to the nation as "Corea" as recently as the years immediately preceding Japan's formal annexation of Corea in 1910. An 1851 map of East Asia by Englishman John Tallis labels the nation Corea. The same spelling is used in The Mongols, a 1908 history of the Mongol race by Jeremiah Curtin, the world's foremost Asia scholar of the day, as well as in several books by American missionaries published between 1887 and 1905.
Japan's annexation of Corea didn't become formal until 1910, but for all practical purposes Japan had become the power that regulated Corea's relations with the outside world in 1897 when it defeated China in a war over Japan's ambition to exercise control over Corea. The only other power willing to contest Japan's supremacy in the Corean peninsula was Russia. When it was easily defeated by Japan at Port Arthur in 1905, the annexation of Corea became a fait accompli. Anxious to avoid a costly Pacific conflict, President Wilson ignored the pleas of a delegation of Corean patriots and their American missionary supporters and turned a blind eye to Japan's acts of formal annexation and colonization of Corea. During that period Japan mounted a campaign to push for the "Korea" useage by the American press. Why? For one of Japan's prospective colonies to precede its master in the alphabetical lineup of nations would be unseemly, Japanese imperialists decided.

S:http://goldsea.com/Air/Issues/Corea/corea.html

More Gordie? Allrightie then buddy..

"Since Korea was known as Corea or Coree for many hundreds of years before being introduced to English speaking world,it seems curious why the spelling had changed into K. "

S: http://uts.cc.utexas.edu/~soon/essays/corea.html

Of course Gordie, Korean's feelings towards Japan are tainted and very biased. Even if it is just nationalistic pridethe base of the argument is explained cleary here:

"Well then, I think that if they really want to change Korea to Corea, they should do so without cooking up a story. It is not so rare a practice to change country names. For example, Zaire was renamed to Congo, and Bilma to Myanmer. "

S:http://www.geocities.com/neue_strassenbahn/corea.html

They do call it Hanguk in hangul. They have the right to decide how to spell their nation's name in English. If other countries decide they don't like it then thats a different story. It would not be that big of a deal to change the name.
Look at the case of Pusan which is spelt With a "P" or with a "B" as in Busan. If they want to call it Corea for national and historical reasons its their right after all they are korean..err..I mean corean...or perhaps cor�en...
They don't spell it Kanada in english either thats just the phonetic translation with hangul.

It seems like you already have a conspiracy theory. Unfortunately it falls flat on its face because at the time Japan was trying to get other countries to call Japan by its official name, 'Nippon', which is after the letter 'K' in the English alphabet. Koreans might care about things like that, but the Japanese are not so petty.

In the past Korea has been spelled 'Corea' or 'Korea' and there have been other spellings too, particularly in the Romance languages. There is no conspiracy here - quite simply the english language had so many spellings for different words that the spread dictionaries and newspaper were able to standardize into a single spelling for each word.

Really Homer, I find your credulousness incredible.

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