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Gwangjuboy
Joined: 08 Jul 2003
Location: England
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 Posted: Sat May 28, 2005 5:26 am Post subject: |
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| soviet_man wrote: |
| Scenes of poverty and child abuse are universal and could equally of be taken in any US city, or in South Korea, or any country in the world. |
Are you seriously suggesting to this board that poverty in the US or South Korea is on the same scale as poverty in North Korea?
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| Economic conditions in South Korea have also caused significant exploitation. There are a lot of beggers in Seoul and people who are homeless, unemployed and socially disadvantaged. |
Are you really drawing an analogy between a fraction of Seoulites who beg and the hundreds of thousands of North Koreans who are literally starving?
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| I also think its "child abuse" for a parent to force a 7 year old to undertake 15 hours a day of school and hagwon in South Korea and deprive them of time to be children. |
I don't know many 7 year old students who undertake 15 hours of study per day. At that age they would be 1st grade elementary students.
School - 9am until 2pm.
Hagwon - 3pm until 5pm. (that age group usually finishes by this time if they even go to a hagwon at all)
Is there any particular reason you are just making things up? |
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soviet_man
Joined: 23 Apr 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Sat May 28, 2005 5:32 am Post subject: |
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| North Korean famine is a "myth" constitutes nothing more than trolling activity at the best, or outright stupidity at the worst. It's a sad indictment of your character. |
USA Death Rate = 8.25 deaths/1,000 population (2005)
DPRK Death Rate = 7.05 deaths/1,000 population (2005)
SOURCE:
http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos.html
So despite: natural disasters, embargos, sanctions, shortages and fear mongering - the DPRK still has a LOWER death rate (per /1000 population) than the USA. |
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Gwangjuboy
Joined: 08 Jul 2003
Location: England
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| Posted: Sat May 28, 2005 5:45 am Post subject: |
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| soviet_man wrote: |
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| North Korean famine is a "myth" constitutes nothing more than trolling activity at the best, or outright stupidity at the worst. It's a sad indictment of your character. |
USA Death Rate = 8.25 deaths/1,000 population (2005)
DPRK Death Rate = 7.05 deaths/1,000 population (2005)
SOURCE:
http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos.html
So despite: natural disasters, embargos, sanctions, shortages and fear mongering - the DPRK still has a LOWER death rate (per /1000 population) than the USA. |
You have cited this statistic before, and I demonstrated to the board why it is unreliable. It's a North Korean source refered to by a CIA website. I am not ready to believe any statistics released the by government of the DPRK. The same govrenment which claims the US invaded North Korea first, Kim Il Sung was born atop Baekdu mountain, and that Kim Jong Ill routinely shoots holes in one when he embarks on a round of golf. Against such a backdrop are you ready to take the word of the DPRK as gospel? |
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soviet_man
Joined: 23 Apr 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Sat May 28, 2005 1:49 pm Post subject: |
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| The same govrenment which claims the US invaded North Korea first, Kim Il Sung was born atop Baekdu mountain, and that Kim Jong Ill routinely shoots holes in one when he embarks on a round of golf. Against such a backdrop are you ready to take the word of the DPRK as gospel? |
I'm sure it must be a source of great embarrassment that 11 US presidents have failed to stop either Kim Il Sung and Kim Jong Il.
Yes, the DPRK has powerful authoritarian reflexes.
That is precisely why it has been able to (correctly) defeat Japanese imperialism in Korea and then subsequently continue to exist unchallenged for 60 years. |
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Alias
Joined: 24 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Sat May 28, 2005 2:52 pm Post subject: |
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I see. All those refugees from the North are really just lying about the horrible conditions they excaped from? The famine was just a myth? 
There is no difference between the fringe stalinist left and the white nationalist far right that denies the holocaust. |
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Randall Flagg
Joined: 01 Oct 2004
Location: Talkin' trash to the garbage around you
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| Posted: Sat May 28, 2005 4:44 pm Post subject: |
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| soviet_man wrote: |
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| Soviet_man, I suggest you watch the documentary "Children of the Secret State" |
Scenes of poverty and child abuse are universal and could equally of be taken in any US city, or in South Korea, or any country in the world.
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I knew you'd say that. |
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soviet_man
Joined: 23 Apr 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Sat May 28, 2005 8:35 pm Post subject: |
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| I knew you'd say that. |
The irony of this argument is that:
Whilst you are eager to mock collective farming in the DPRK - I'm sure you WOULDN'T be equally comfortable mocking (say) the Kibbutz system in Israel. |
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Kimchieluver
Joined: 02 Mar 2005
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| Posted: Sat May 28, 2005 9:25 pm Post subject: |
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In the kibbutz system, the money made by the individual kibbutz goes directly back to the kibbutz. People are allocated cars and what not for whatever needs they may have. The people in the Kibbutz generally live very prosperous lives and are free to leave at any time.
In the North Korean system, people get back very little of what they work for, the government takes all the proceeds and doesn't do a good job redistributing it equally. Most people have no access to cars and experience black outs on a daily basis.
Stop comparing apples ot oranges.
And once again I ask, WHY DID YOU LEAVE THE SOVIET UNION? |
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Gwangjuboy
Joined: 08 Jul 2003
Location: England
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| Posted: Sat May 28, 2005 11:52 pm Post subject: |
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| soviet_man wrote: |
I'm sure it must be a source of great embarrassment......
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The only source of any embarrassment is your inability to construct a decent argument. You have now been caught with your hand in the cookie jar on several occasions. I am surprised that you are continuing with a tactic that has failed you miserabley thus far; making things up as you go along.
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| that 11 US presidents have failed to stop either Kim Il Sung and Kim Jong Il. |
The US stopped Kim Il Sung taking the whole penninsula.
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| That is precisely why it has been able to (correctly) defeat Japanese imperialism in Korea |
The argument about Japan's role in Korea has been done to death on this board. The anti-Japan league was unable to make a decent case for itself. In the closing arguments in the latest chapter on this saga they even claimed that the Japanese must have been guilty of gross human rights violations in Korea because some Japanese men grope women in train carriages 60 years after the fact! Have a read.
http://www.eslcafe.com/forums/korea/viewtopic.php?t=36367&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=180
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| and then subsequently continue to exist unchallenged for 60 years |
North Korea was propped up by China after the fall of the Soviet Union. If China pulled the rug from under Kim Jong Il's feet North Korea would crumble. |
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JacktheCat
Joined: 08 May 2004
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| Posted: Sat May 28, 2005 11:56 pm Post subject: |
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soviet_man is obviously someone's sock puppet troll.
It's pathetic really; that someone has to go to all the trouble of posting inane comments under a sock trying to get a rise out of people just to give their ego a boost.
Don't feed the trolls. |
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soviet_man
Joined: 23 Apr 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Sun May 29, 2005 12:47 am Post subject: |
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Gwanjuboy + JacktheCat,
Fundamentally, 50 Years of US occupation in Korea has accomplished nothing.
* Kim Jong Il is still there.
* The DPRK state is still there.
* The nuclear warheads are still there.
* The UN continues to recognise the DPRK as a member state.
All the rhetoric and anti-DPRK ranting won't change those inescapable facts.
People have been predicting the demise of the DPRK for decades - but it simply has not happened. |
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Guri Guy
Joined: 07 Sep 2003
Location: Bamboo Island
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| Posted: Sun May 29, 2005 5:21 am Post subject: |
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| I think 50 years of the US being in South Korea has prevented North Korea from invading. |
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Gwangjuboy
Joined: 08 Jul 2003
Location: England
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| Posted: Sun May 29, 2005 3:42 pm Post subject: |
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| soviet_man wrote: |
Gwanjuboy + JacktheCat,
Fundamentally, 50 Years of US occupation in Korea has accomplished nothing. |
Technically it was liberation. The world's most powerful army has kept the North's military ambitions firmly in check and allowed huge amounts of foreign investment poor into the South. The net result is that South Korea is now one of the richest countries in the world. North Korea is a failed state. |
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soviet_man
Joined: 23 Apr 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Sun May 29, 2005 4:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Technically it was liberation. |
Your tax dollars pay for the USA to have (currently) a quarter of a million troops deployed on foreign soil all over the world:
Stealing oil, killing civillians, committing crimes, creating profits for giant corporations, occupying soverign countries and spreading imperialism.
THAT is not liberation. |
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Gwangjuboy
Joined: 08 Jul 2003
Location: England
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| Posted: Sun May 29, 2005 5:41 pm Post subject: |
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| soviet_man wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Technically it was liberation. |
Your tax dollars pay for the USA to have (currently) a quarter of a million troops deployed on foreign soil all over the world:
Stealing oil, killing civillians, committing crimes, creating profits for giant corporations, occupying soverign countries and spreading imperialism.
THAT is not liberation. |
This is nice. If I had realised we were in novice's corner I might have started calling you silly names or something. What's this thread really about Soviet warrior? Is it a Yank bashing parade? You just dressed it up as a devil's advocate approach to the North Korean regime, and when the wheels came off that particular mission you were talking about oil (even though there really isn't any in of it South Korea) and a whole host of other nutbar theories including "killing civillians"  Wait, were we talking about Russia in Chechyna or something? When you have substantial evidence that the USA's role in South Korea has been a quest for oil (that's a good one), the killing of civillians, (warning-don't bring out the middle school students who were accidentally killed card), and a litany of criminal esapades, feel free to cough it up. Until then, it's difficult for a North Korean apologist hailing from Russia to refer to crimes without sounding extremely hypocritical, or come across as a poor quality troll. Don't suggest that you want this argument taking to the next level; you will get burnt. |
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