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Kim Jong Il Wearing New Platform Shoes
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Gwangjuboy



Joined: 08 Jul 2003
Location: England
PostPosted: Sat May 28, 2005 5:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
soviet_man wrote:
Scenes of poverty and child abuse are universal and could equally of be taken in any US city, or in South Korea, or any country in the world.


Are you seriously suggesting to this board that poverty in the US or South Korea is on the same scale as poverty in North Korea?


Quote:
Economic conditions in South Korea have also caused significant exploitation. There are a lot of beggers in Seoul and people who are homeless, unemployed and socially disadvantaged.


Are you really drawing an analogy between a fraction of Seoulites who beg and the hundreds of thousands of North Koreans who are literally starving?

Quote:
I also think its "child abuse" for a parent to force a 7 year old to undertake 15 hours a day of school and hagwon in South Korea and deprive them of time to be children.


I don't know many 7 year old students who undertake 15 hours of study per day. At that age they would be 1st grade elementary students.

School - 9am until 2pm.
Hagwon - 3pm until 5pm. (that age group usually finishes by this time if they even go to a hagwon at all)

Is there any particular reason you are just making things up?
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soviet_man



Joined: 23 Apr 2005
Location: Seoul
PostPosted: Sat May 28, 2005 5:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Quote:
North Korean famine is a "myth" constitutes nothing more than trolling activity at the best, or outright stupidity at the worst. It's a sad indictment of your character.



USA Death Rate = 8.25 deaths/1,000 population (2005)

DPRK Death Rate = 7.05 deaths/1,000 population (2005)


SOURCE:
http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos.html


So despite: natural disasters, embargos, sanctions, shortages and fear mongering - the DPRK still has a LOWER death rate (per /1000 population) than the USA.
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Gwangjuboy



Joined: 08 Jul 2003
Location: England
PostPosted: Sat May 28, 2005 5:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
soviet_man wrote:
Quote:
North Korean famine is a "myth" constitutes nothing more than trolling activity at the best, or outright stupidity at the worst. It's a sad indictment of your character.



USA Death Rate = 8.25 deaths/1,000 population (2005)

DPRK Death Rate = 7.05 deaths/1,000 population (2005)


SOURCE:
http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos.html


So despite: natural disasters, embargos, sanctions, shortages and fear mongering - the DPRK still has a LOWER death rate (per /1000 population) than the USA.


You have cited this statistic before, and I demonstrated to the board why it is unreliable. It's a North Korean source refered to by a CIA website. I am not ready to believe any statistics released the by government of the DPRK. The same govrenment which claims the US invaded North Korea first, Kim Il Sung was born atop Baekdu mountain, and that Kim Jong Ill routinely shoots holes in one when he embarks on a round of golf. Against such a backdrop are you ready to take the word of the DPRK as gospel?
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soviet_man



Joined: 23 Apr 2005
Location: Seoul
PostPosted: Sat May 28, 2005 1:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Quote:
The same govrenment which claims the US invaded North Korea first, Kim Il Sung was born atop Baekdu mountain, and that Kim Jong Ill routinely shoots holes in one when he embarks on a round of golf. Against such a backdrop are you ready to take the word of the DPRK as gospel?



I'm sure it must be a source of great embarrassment that 11 US presidents have failed to stop either Kim Il Sung and Kim Jong Il.

Yes, the DPRK has powerful authoritarian reflexes.

That is precisely why it has been able to (correctly) defeat Japanese imperialism in Korea and then subsequently continue to exist unchallenged for 60 years.
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Alias



Joined: 24 Jan 2003
PostPosted: Sat May 28, 2005 2:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I see. All those refugees from the North are really just lying about the horrible conditions they excaped from? The famine was just a myth? Rolling Eyes

There is no difference between the fringe stalinist left and the white nationalist far right that denies the holocaust.
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Randall Flagg



Joined: 01 Oct 2004
Location: Talkin' trash to the garbage around you
PostPosted: Sat May 28, 2005 4:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
soviet_man wrote:
Quote:
Soviet_man, I suggest you watch the documentary "Children of the Secret State"



Scenes of poverty and child abuse are universal and could equally of be taken in any US city, or in South Korea, or any country in the world.



I knew you'd say that. Rolling Eyes
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soviet_man



Joined: 23 Apr 2005
Location: Seoul
PostPosted: Sat May 28, 2005 8:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Quote:
I knew you'd say that.




The irony of this argument is that:

Whilst you are eager to mock collective farming in the DPRK - I'm sure you WOULDN'T be equally comfortable mocking (say) the Kibbutz system in Israel.
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Kimchieluver



Joined: 02 Mar 2005
PostPosted: Sat May 28, 2005 9:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
In the kibbutz system, the money made by the individual kibbutz goes directly back to the kibbutz. People are allocated cars and what not for whatever needs they may have. The people in the Kibbutz generally live very prosperous lives and are free to leave at any time.

In the North Korean system, people get back very little of what they work for, the government takes all the proceeds and doesn't do a good job redistributing it equally. Most people have no access to cars and experience black outs on a daily basis.

Stop comparing apples ot oranges.

And once again I ask, WHY DID YOU LEAVE THE SOVIET UNION?
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Gwangjuboy



Joined: 08 Jul 2003
Location: England
PostPosted: Sat May 28, 2005 11:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
soviet_man wrote:
I'm sure it must be a source of great embarrassment......


The only source of any embarrassment is your inability to construct a decent argument. You have now been caught with your hand in the cookie jar on several occasions. I am surprised that you are continuing with a tactic that has failed you miserabley thus far; making things up as you go along.

Quote:
that 11 US presidents have failed to stop either Kim Il Sung and Kim Jong Il.



The US stopped Kim Il Sung taking the whole penninsula.


Quote:
That is precisely why it has been able to (correctly) defeat Japanese imperialism in Korea



The argument about Japan's role in Korea has been done to death on this board. The anti-Japan league was unable to make a decent case for itself. In the closing arguments in the latest chapter on this saga they even claimed that the Japanese must have been guilty of gross human rights violations in Korea because some Japanese men grope women in train carriages 60 years after the fact! Have a read.

http://www.eslcafe.com/forums/korea/viewtopic.php?t=36367&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=180

Quote:
and then subsequently continue to exist unchallenged for 60 years


North Korea was propped up by China after the fall of the Soviet Union. If China pulled the rug from under Kim Jong Il's feet North Korea would crumble.
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