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Ilsanman
Joined: 15 Aug 2003
Location: Bucheon, Korea
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 Posted: Tue Sep 27, 2005 7:07 pm Post subject: Is it �Ѽ� or ����? |
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Koreans must have caught onto the Chinese way of writing Seoul.
The chinese call it �Ѽ� so now there are posters in the subways saying..........It's not �Ѽ�, it's ����, accompanied with a correction of how to write the chinese characters.
Then it has a cartoon of a chinese person speaking it the proper way. |
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JacktheCat
Joined: 08 May 2004
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| Posted: Tue Sep 27, 2005 7:27 pm Post subject: |
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This is turning into one of those "we call it the East Sea, so the whole world should call it the East Sea" kind of things.
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Unlike most place names in Korea, "Seoul" has no corresponding Hanja, which are Chinese characters used in the Korean language. The word "seoul" in Korean means "capital city". For people who use the Chinese language, the city has been known instead as ���� (read as Hancheng in Chinese, Hanseong in Korean), the Joseon Dynasty name of the city which denotes a fortified city (seong) on the Han River.
After months of discussion and debate, the Seoul Metropolitan Government officially announced on January 18, 2005 that the Chinese name of the city shall be Shou'er (���), which is a close transliteration of Seoul, where "shou" can also mean "first, capital". The new name will be used for all official government websites and publications in Chinese, instead of Hancheng/Hanseong. The Seoul Metropolitan Government has also asked the Chinese Government to use the new name; however, some Chinese organizations from airlines to the official Xinhua News Agency have ignored Seoul's request to use the new Chinese name [1], with a Beijing-based newspaper commenting that Chinese speakers have the right to decide what name to use for Seoul.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seoul#Chinese_Adaptation_of_.22Seoul.22 |
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just because
Joined: 01 Aug 2003
Location: Changwon - 4964
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| Posted: Tue Sep 27, 2005 7:50 pm Post subject: |
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| The problem is the chinese couldn't give 2 tosses... |
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djsmnc
Joined: 20 Jan 2003
Location: Dave's ESL Cafe
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| Posted: Tue Sep 27, 2005 8:04 pm Post subject: |
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I'm sure they're changing the books as we speak  |
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Bulsajo
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Tue Sep 27, 2005 8:08 pm Post subject: |
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Who wants to go out and grab some Peking Duck?
We'll wash it down with some Bombay Sapphire. |
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Bo Peabody
Joined: 25 Aug 2005
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| Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2005 9:45 am Post subject: |
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| Bulsajo wrote: |
Who wants to go out and grab some Peking Duck?
We'll wash it down with some Bombay Sapphire. |
 Holy cow. You're on a role, man.
What is your signature quote in reference to? I'm curious. |
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EFLtrainer
Joined: 04 May 2005
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| Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2005 9:49 am Post subject: |
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| JacktheCat wrote: |
This is turning into one of those "we call it the East Sea, so the whole world should call it the East Sea" kind of things.
| Quote: |
Unlike most place names in Korea, "Seoul" has no corresponding Hanja, which are Chinese characters used in the Korean language. The word "seoul" in Korean means "capital city". For people who use the Chinese language, the city has been known instead as ���� (read as Hancheng in Chinese, Hanseong in Korean), the Joseon Dynasty name of the city which denotes a fortified city (seong) on the Han River.
After months of discussion and debate, the Seoul Metropolitan Government officially announced on January 18, 2005 that the Chinese name of the city shall be Shou'er (���), which is a close transliteration of Seoul, where "shou" can also mean "first, capital". The new name will be used for all official government websites and publications in Chinese, instead of Hancheng/Hanseong. The Seoul Metropolitan Government has also asked the Chinese Government to use the new name; however, some Chinese organizations from airlines to the official Xinhua News Agency have ignored Seoul's request to use the new Chinese name [1], with a Beijing-based newspaper commenting that Chinese speakers have the right to decide what name to use for Seoul.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seoul#Chinese_Adaptation_of_.22Seoul.22 |
One wonders why they didn't do a little checking around, consulting, etc., before they did this. (.... actually one understands full well why.... ) |
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Ilsanman
Joined: 15 Aug 2003
Location: Bucheon, Korea
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| Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2005 10:02 pm Post subject: yes |
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| But Koreans don't seem to be bothered when we all call it 'Korea' and not 'Hanguk'. |
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noelinkorea
Joined: 09 Apr 2003
Location: Shinchon, Seoul
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| Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2005 2:42 am Post subject: me |
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Unfortunately they do care about whether it's Korea or Corea...
My two cents worth: I don't think it should be the position of the speakers of one language to demand speakers of another language on how to use their own words. For historical reasons the name in Chinese has been HanSeong (in Korean pronunciation). It's not much different from the East Sea/Sea of Japan debate...call it what you will in your own language.
Take the case of "Germany"...
Germany in English
Deutchland in German
Togil in Korean
Deuts in Japanese
Nemcy (sp?) in Polish
Allemagne in French
etc etc
...I don't hear Germany complaining.
In places where there has been much historical contact with another place, the names of contact cities tend to be rather different in each language. More recent contact tends to mean that languages will adopt similar versions of the same name...Many countries call Seoul something similar to "Seoul" in their own languages since first contact with Korea was relativey recent, but Beijing has had a long history of contact with Seoul, and has had an independent name for it as such for too long to change it now, IMHO.
I'm not sure, but maybe HanSeong is not so much Chinese as Idu (sp?) - the former phonetic use of Hanja to write Korean before and after the invention of Hangeul... |
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Ilsanman
Joined: 15 Aug 2003
Location: Bucheon, Korea
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| Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2005 8:13 pm Post subject: yes |
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Until just recently, Seoul could not even be written in Hanja. They created some hanja for them.
I heard the C vs K issue is about alphabetical order. Japan wanted to be first. I swear Korea sings 'Blame Japan' just like South Park sings 'Blame Canada'. |
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JacktheCat
Joined: 08 May 2004
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| Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2005 8:56 pm Post subject: Re: yes |
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| Ilsanman wrote: |
I heard the C vs K issue is about alphabetical order. Japan wanted to be first.
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That's just one of those weird urban legends about Japan that abound here in the land of the not quite right.
Supposedly Japan changed the name Corea to Korea during the occupation, so that Japan would be first alphabetically.
Which is total BS, because (a) Japan doesn't use the Roman alphabet, and (b) at the time, as far as Japan was concerned, the place was the Chosun prefecture of it's glorious empire, the country named Korea or Corea was dead and buried.
Here is a pretty good debunking of this myth here: http://www.geocities.com/neue_strassenbahn/corea.html |
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mithridates
Joined: 03 Mar 2003
Location: President's office, Korean Space Agency
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| Posted: Mon Nov 28, 2005 6:21 pm Post subject: |
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Plus, at the same time Japan was protesting at the UN that their official name be Nippon instead of Japan.
As for the name change I have no problem with it, though it'll probably be like Myanmar / Burma for a while; people will use one officially and then slip back into habit when just talking about the place with friends. Name changes take a long time to register. |
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billybrobby
Joined: 09 Dec 2004
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| Posted: Mon Nov 28, 2005 6:43 pm Post subject: |
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| mithridates wrote: |
Plus, at the same time Japan was protesting at the UN that their official name be Nippon instead of Japan.
As for the name change I have no problem with it, though it'll probably be like Myanmar / Burma for a while; people will use one officially and then slip back into habit when just talking about the place with friends. Name changes take a long time to register. |
I had a college professor who was from Burma and refused to call it Myanmar. And he wouldn't allow anyone else to call in Myanmar either. You know, the guy spends a few years in a prison camp and he gets all touchy about it. jeez. |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Mon Nov 28, 2005 6:46 pm Post subject: |
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| though it'll probably be like Myanmar / Burma |
I think there is a difference with this example. At the time, Burma's name in Burma was Burma. Then they changed it to Myanmar. This is not the same here in DaeHan Mingook, which is only called Korea/Corea in foreign languages. Korea/Corea is not the name of this place. DaeHan Mingook is the official name. And if DaeHan Mingook wants to change its name to Corea, then they have the right to do so. However, there is no discussion of them doing that. They only want to control what other people call this place in a foreign language. It makes no sense. |
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JacktheCat
Joined: 08 May 2004
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| Posted: Mon Nov 28, 2005 7:26 pm Post subject: |
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| JacktheCat wrote: |
... however, some Chinese organizations from airlines to the official Xinhua News Agency have ignored Seoul's request to use the new Chinese name [1], with a Beijing-based newspaper commenting that Chinese speakers have the right to decide what name to use for Seoul.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seoul#Chinese_Adaptation_of_.22Seoul.22 |
What is truely ironic, is that China is lecturing Korea on individual freedom of expression. |
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