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If God Exists, Where is He?
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forgesteel



Joined: 30 Aug 2005
Location: Earth
PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2005 6:38 am    Post subject: atheism not a good alternative to theism Reply with quote
Isn't an atheist just as wildly dogmatic and speculative as a theist in his assertions regarding things that are essentially unknowable? If not, why do you think so?

Cheers,
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Manner of Speaking



Joined: 09 Jan 2003
PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2005 7:02 am    Post subject: Re: atheism not a good alternative to theism Reply with quote
forgesteel wrote:
Isn't an atheist just as wildly dogmatic and speculative as a theist in his assertions regarding things that are essentially unknowable? If not, why do you think so?

Cheers,

Aren't you making a statement, but attempting to avoid responsibility for substantiating the statement by phrasing it in the form of a question? If not, why do you think so?

Cheers,
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Summer Wine



Joined: 20 Mar 2005
Location: Next to a River
PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2005 8:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Atheists believe there is no God, because they can't see him. (Just like the wind). Non Atheists believe there is a God because they can feel him. (Just like the wind).

If neither side forces the other to accept their view, why argue about it. Let the Atheists live without criticism, Let the Non Atheists live without criticism.

For Everyone, why does God have to prove his existance to you? What have you done to make him need too?
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fiveeagles



Joined: 19 May 2005
Location: Vancouver
PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2005 8:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Quote:
If neither side forces the other to accept their view, why argue about it. Let the Atheists live without criticism, Let the Non Atheists live without criticism.


Do you honestly think this will ever happen? When you have radical religious zealots killing people. ie. terrorists, bombing abortionist clinics etc...

There will always be a political agenda by both sides. There will never be peace until Jesus comes.

Quote:

For Everyone, why does God have to prove his existance to you? What have you done to make him need too?


He doesn't have to, but does so out of mercy and kindness. He does so because He longs for a relationship. He loves to reveal Himself so we may enter into deeper communion.

Faith is the evidence of things NOT seen and the substance of things hoped for.

I think of when Jesus revealed Himself to Thomas after the ressurrection. He didn't reveal Himself to prove that He was raised from the dead, but because He longed to enter into a relationship with Thomas. A relationship not based upon proof, but upon substance.

Smile
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jayjayjay



Joined: 27 Aug 2005
PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2005 9:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Summer Wine wrote:
Atheists believe there is no God, because they can't see him. (Just like the wind). Non Atheists believe there is a God because they can feel him. (Just like the wind).

If neither side forces the other to accept their view, why argue about it. Let the Atheists live without criticism, Let the Non Atheists live without criticism.

For Everyone, why does God have to prove his existance to you? What have you done to make him need too?


Sides? Oh come on. Who is drawing lines in the sand besides you? Now this is painful. We are all brothers and sisters on this ball of mud...no matter what.
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Rteacher



Joined: 23 May 2005
Location: Western MA, USA
PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2005 4:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
We are only "brothers and sisters" because God is the seed-bearing Father of us all (and material nature is the "mother" impregnated by the glance of God...) If God does not exist (in the minds of atheists) the concept of "brotherhood" gets done in by "might makes right"...
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forgesteel



Joined: 30 Aug 2005
Location: Earth
PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2005 1:45 am    Post subject: substantiation and responsibility Reply with quote
Manner of Speaking wrote:
forgesteel wrote:
Isn't an atheist just as wildly dogmatic and speculative as a theist in his assertions regarding things that are essentially unknowable? If not, why do you think so?

Cheers,

Aren't you making a statement, but attempting to avoid responsibility for substantiating the statement by phrasing it in the form of a question? If not, why do you think so?

Cheers,


Attempting to avoid responsibility? No. Stating an opinion? Yes. My agnostic stance seems to be inherently virtuous in that I am not claiming I know. In this stance, until either side puts up, I figure they ought to shut up. Another virtue of agnosticism is it seems inherently more skeptical than the other two camps.

Atheists claim they /know/ no god exists. I ask them, "How do you know he/ she/ it doesn't exist? As far as I know, you haven't searched and scoured the universe completely enough (i.e. in its entirety) to be able to state a definate opinion on the matter." Theists claim they /know/ god exists. Similarly, I ask them, "How do you know god exists? Can you show me him/ her/ it or proof of same?" Neither substantiate their claims very well, most especially the fundamentalists of both camps.

You're right, though. Freedom is a two-edged sword. Therefore I will substantiate my stance: Freethinkers begin by doubting everything. Therefore, I doubt the statement that 'god exists' and the assertion that he/ she/ it 'doesn't exist.'

Now you can go ahead and answer my original questions, if you will.

Cheers,
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Summer Wine



Joined: 20 Mar 2005
Location: Next to a River
PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2005 1:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
If there are no sides, why the differences?

I made changes to the original.

Quote:
Sides? Oh come on. Who is drawing lines in the sand besides you?
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igotthisguitar



Joined: 08 Apr 2003
Location: South Korea (Permanent Vacation)
PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2005 3:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
HERE:

http://www.militantplatypus.com/blog/dear-god/ Wink
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Rteacher



Joined: 23 May 2005
Location: Western MA, USA
PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2005 3:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Lord Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, Krishna appearing as His own devotee to spread the chanting of Hare Krishna all over India, presented the philosophy that we are simultaneously one and different from God. We are one in quality, like a drop of sea water is the same quality as the ocean, but are different quantitatively - as the ocean is much greater than a single drop of water. All living entities are also spiritually the same, but we are materially different in so many ways. As far as philosophers go, every philosopher has to have his or her own speculative take on the big picture in order to become distinguished. The Absolute Truth is too inconceivably great to be understood by a speculative process. Only by mercifully revealing Himself to nonenvious pure souls - since the beginning of creation - can we understand something about God.

For those who may object to refer to God as "He" instead o