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fiveeagles
Joined: 19 May 2005
Location: Vancouver
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 Posted: Sun Dec 18, 2005 6:11 am Post subject: |
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Grotto,
No matter how much you mock, insult, and argue, God loves you. You don't hurt me when you scorn His grace, you hurt Him.
And that's the power of His grace, you can hate me for what i stand for, but I can still love you.  |
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the_beaver
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Sun Dec 18, 2005 6:15 am Post subject: |
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| fiveeagles wrote: |
Grotto,
No matter how much you mock, insult, and argue, God loves you. You don't hurt me when you scorn His grace, you hurt Him.
And that's the power of His grace, you can hate me for what i stand for, but I can still love you. |
Dude, let me give you some advice.
I'm in favor of religion, even the tripe that you and Rteacher spout. If you want to win converts don't preach or be didactic. Just do your thing and if your thing is cool people will respond. |
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Satori
Joined: 09 Dec 2005
Location: Above it all
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| Posted: Sun Dec 18, 2005 6:33 am Post subject: |
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| fiveeagles wrote: |
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| "I believe God has the best plan because I believe god has the best plan" |
Like I said,
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This inspiration was through grace and not works. All other plans for salvation is through works.
I prefer grace. |
God has given us the capacity to decide what is truth and what is not. What you choose is up to you, but I prefer a religion based upon grace. It is this grace that separates it from other religions. Christianity is about receiving God's love and walking in the freedom of this knowledge. Jesus could not have been a prophet. Either He was the son of God or a demon. No other choice. Therefore if you are to say He is the son of God, then you have to walk in His words.
"I am the way, the truth and life and no man has the Father but through me."
The gift of Christ was and is free. There is nothing you can do that will allow you to earn this gift. You don't have to be "enlightened", you don't have to chant so many prayers in the day and you don't have to offer sacrifices to idols for safety.
All you have to do it be loved and this is why Jesus said it was the only way. Arumdamneyo! |
You've simply "decided" that grace is better than works. This choice is entirely arbitrary. Now your position looks like this...
I believe God has the best plan because it's based on grace not works. I believe grace is better than works because I believe grace is better than works.
In the end, you are simply intolerant. The core of your religion is a denial of the validity of all other religions. This kind of thought makes you repulsive, bigotted, fascist, totalitarian, and even dangerous. |
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fiveeagles
Joined: 19 May 2005
Location: Vancouver
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| Posted: Sun Dec 18, 2005 7:17 am Post subject: |
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| I'm in favor of religion, even the tripe that you and Rteacher spout. If you want to win converts don't preach or be didactic. Just do your thing and if your thing is cool people will respond. |
Thanks, but the word of God does not come back void. It goes forth and accomplishes everything it was meant to do. Not everyone will respond to the gospel, because not everyone loves the light, but some will. Maybe, 20 or 30 years from now, but they will. 
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| You've simply "decided" that grace is better than works. This choice is entirely arbitrary. |
No entirely arbitrary. Those who love truth will be drawn to the gospel of grace.
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| I believe God has the best plan because it's based on grace not works. I believe grace is better than works because I believe grace is better than works. |
I guess if you want to box me into parameters that you can understand.
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| In the end, you are simply intolerant. The core of your religion is a denial of the validity of all other religions. This kind of thought makes you repulsive, bigotted, fascist, totalitarian, and even dangerous. |
Actually the core of our gospel is that God is love. He so loved the world that He gave His only begotten son that who soever believes in Him shall have everlasting life. This is the core of it, that God loved us to save us from our ignorance. In the center of this journey is a being who so loves us that He died upon a cross for us.
Actually, totalitarian people are those who tell others what they have to believe through intimidation and insults. I have never told you what you have had to believe. You have a choice to believe. I am not enforcing you to believe in it or not. That is your choice. I am only explaining the grace of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. |
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Satori
Joined: 09 Dec 2005
Location: Above it all
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| Posted: Sun Dec 18, 2005 7:32 am Post subject: |
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| fiveeagles wrote: |
No entirely arbitrary. Those who love truth will be drawn to the gospel of grace. |
Yes it is arbitrary. I love truth, but Im not drawn to the gospel of grace. Where is your theory now? I want some "logical proof" that proves causative connection between loving truth and being drawn to the gospel of grace. You see, billions of people round the world would go on record saying they love truth, yet much less of them are drawn to the gospel of grace. There does not seem to be a connection there. Unless of course you're going to say "AHA! But you don't really even know what truth is!". In which case it seems we really can't have a sensible discussion with you.
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Actually the core of our gospel is that God is love. He so loved the world that He gave His only begotten son that who soever believes in Him shall have everlasting life. This is the core of it, that God loved us to save us from our ignorance. In the center of this journey is a being who so loves us that He died upon a cross for us. |
Well if it's not the core then it's fundamental that God is the only way. That amounts to intolerance of other religions. Every single culture on earth has had a religion, from almost the beginning of humanity. And you have the arrogance to feel that your particular one is somehow the only valid one. The insanity of it beggars belief.
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Actually, totalitarian people are those who tell others what they have to believe through intimidation and insults. I have never told you what you have had to believe. You have a choice to believe. I am not enforcing you to believe in it or not. That is your choice. I am only explaining the grace of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. |
I can see I'll have to break things down really simply for you. No of course it's directly the same a totalitarian form of government. But it is the same in principle. In the sphere of religion, it is the equivilant of totalitarianism. That is, my way or the high way, no questions asked. This is profoundly intolerant. It displays monsterous ignorance of the reality of the world, and how religion has been part of all cultures sinse the dawn of time. It displays monsterous cultural arrogance to feel that your group and your group alone have found the answer, and all other groups must eventually take up your way or be bannished to the fiery pit forever. I guess in your ideal world everyone would be christian huh? Think of the cultural distruction that would cause! You would bulldoze a huge part of the color and diversity of the worlds cultures, and have it all a monochrome grey, all the same. Cultures have had religion as one of the central part of thier identity for ever, and you would take that away and replace it with something foreign. This is cultural imperialism, this is religious totalitarianism.
Congratulations, you are the most breathtakingly ignorant person I have ever met online. Im surprised you're able to tie your shoelaces. |
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fiveeagles
Joined: 19 May 2005
Location: Vancouver
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| Posted: Sun Dec 18, 2005 8:19 am Post subject: |
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| Yes it is arbitrary. I love truth, but Im not drawn to the gospel of grace. Where is your theory now? I want some "logical proof" that proves causative connection between loving truth and being drawn to the gospel of grace. You see, billions of people round the world would go on record saying they love truth, yet much less of them are drawn to the gospel of grace. There does not seem to be a connection there. Unless of course you're going to say "AHA! But you don't really even know what truth is!". In which case it seems we really can't have a sensible discussion with you. |
Truth is this,
1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2He was with God in the beginning.
3Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4In him was life, and that life was the light of men. 5The light shines in the darkness, but the darkness has not understood[a] it.
and this,
18The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.
Once again, you don't want to accept it as truth then you have to face the consequences of these actions.
You want logical proof? Determine for yourself if it is logical.
http://www.eslcafe.com/forums/korea/viewtopic.php?t=47348&start=75
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| Well if it's not the core then it's fundamental that God is the only way. That amounts to intolerance of other religions. Every single culture on earth has had a religion, from almost the beginning of humanity. And you have the arrogance to feel that your particular one is somehow the only valid one. The insanity of it beggars belief. |
I guess it is the most intolerant, tolerant religion there is. There is only one way to salvation, but anyone can come. You bring up good points, but when you break down each of these other religions down, you will see an intolerance of its own.
Regardless, your argument that teaches acceptance of all other religions is wrong. Many other religions teach on their own seperate plan to salvation. Through works. Your argument is faulted in theory and thus a disguise for something else. I think Buddhism has a plan where everyone can come, but it is still based upon works. A hierachy of sorts.
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| I can see I'll have to break things down really simply for you. No of course it's directly the same a totalitarian form of government. But it is the same in principle. In the sphere of religion, it is the equivilant of totalitarianism. That is, my way or the high way, no questions asked. |
What faith isn't like this? Who believes in something that they don't think would be the best for everyone? You obviously believe in a better plan and so need to preach on your own theory.
However, I do agree with you, the kingdom of God is a benevolent dictatorship. God is the supreme ruler and we are the subjects. It will be an aristocracy and their will be a governing party in Heaven. Those who walk in the greatest power of love in this life will walk in the greatest level of authority in the next. This in itself shapes itself up to be a democracy ruled by love, servanthood and compassion. Where the wisdom of God will be glorified forever.
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| This is profoundly intolerant. It displays monsterous ignorance of the reality of the world, and how religion has been part of all cultures sinse the dawn of time. It displays monsterous cultural arrogance to feel that your group and your group alone have found the answer, and all other groups must eventually take up your way or be bannished to the fiery pit forever. |
The amazing part of truth is that it is tied to freedom. If what I believe is wrong and a lie, than the truth of this universe will eventually overcome my delusions. For the truth shall set us free. If I do teach truth, then the principles that I tell others will continue to root itself in society until the return of Christ.
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| I guess in your ideal world everyone would be christian huh? Think of the cultural distruction that would cause! You would bulldoze a huge part of the color and diversity of the worlds cultures, and have it all a monochrome grey, all the same. |
God's kingdom is of such diversity, that we can't even comprehend the diversity and the splendor it will be. I believe that in the next life, we will spend our eternities in exploring the universe and the many planets that will be teaming with life. God is such a God of diversity. It already screams it from every mountain and every sunset.
The kingdom of God isn't about destroying or breaking down, but it is about releasing and setting free. Setting many people of Africa free from AIDS, setting many people free from poverty, setting many people free from hatred and darkness. Setting people free from forced prostitution and violent gangs.
You espouse such a beautiful world, but where is it? Maybe, you don't know what it supposed to look like?
When the glory of God breaks out on this earth like what has never been seen. It will be absolutely breath taking.
Hopefully, that would draw people to kingdom of God rather than the destructive forceful kind.
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| Cultures have had religion as one of the central part of thier identity for ever, and you would take that away and replace it with something foreign. This is cultural imperialism, this is religious totalitarianism. |
True and thus why I disagreed with the war in Iraq. Democracy cannot be forced upon other people's wills. It only can be shown through love!
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| Congratulations, you are the most breathtakingly ignorant person I have ever met online. |
Does this mean I can't count on you for a Christmas present?
Seriously though, if I was the person you described, than I would be worried too. |
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Grotto
Joined: 21 Mar 2004
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| Posted: Sun Dec 18, 2005 8:40 am Post subject: |
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Those who love truth will be drawn to the gospel of grace.
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You should say it as: those that love my version of the truth will be drawn to the gospel of grace.
5eagles you're a religious zealot, brainwashed and spout out your nonsense secure in the idea that you are right.
Guess what? You arent! All you are doing is spouting out YOUR opinion. Religious peopel like you make my sick. If you want to worship..feel free. If you want to pray...go ahead. If you want to shout it from the mountain to everyone else.....stick a sock in it...no one wants to hear your message of hate and intolerance!
Are you a priest? Minister? Rabbi?
Thought not. Then what gives you the right to PRETEND to be knowledgeable? You are doing a fairly decent job of driving people away from your religion by showing them your narrowmindedness and intolerance.
People like you give religion a bad name! |
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mithridates
Joined: 03 Mar 2003
Location: President's office, Korean Space Agency
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| Posted: Sun Dec 18, 2005 11:20 am Post subject: |
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| the_beaver wrote: |
| fiveeagles wrote: |
Grotto,
No matter how much you mock, insult, and argue, God loves you. You don't hurt me when you scorn His grace, you hurt Him.
And that's the power of His grace, you can hate me for what i stand for, but I can still love you. |
Dude, let me give you some advice.
I'm in favor of religion, even the tripe that you and Rteacher spout. If you want to win converts don't preach or be didactic. Just do your thing and if your thing is cool people will respond. |
My thoughts:
1)Beaver's absolutely right here.
2)Grotto, you need to recognize when someone's being prosletyzing and when someone's simply answering a question (Kermo). You were getting offended at nothing, and the rolling eyes don't help.
3)Jedi never got converts by going out in the street and talking to people, they just happened to be amazingly cool and that's all they needed even though people had to give up earthly attachments to join them.
4)I don't remember why this thread started and I'm not going to go back to check either.
5)My views are pretty close to those of C.S. Lewis. |
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The Man known as The Man
Joined: 29 Mar 2003
Location: 3 cheers for Ted Haggard oh yeah!
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| Posted: Mon Dec 19, 2005 3:30 pm Post subject: |
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| fiveeagles wrote: |
Grotto,
No matter how much you mock, insult, and argue, God loves you. You don't hurt me when you scorn His grace, you hurt Him.
And that's the power of His grace, you can hate me for what i stand for, but I can still love you. |
The Bible says even someone such as yourself is proven wise when you remain silent. |
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fiveeagles
Joined: 19 May 2005
Location: Vancouver
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| Posted: Thu Dec 22, 2005 7:02 am Post subject: |
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| The Bible says even someone such as yourself is proven wise when you remain silent. |
Thanks, good words to meditate on.
I have put some hours into prayer over this, because I wanted to hear from God on this,
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My thoughts:
1)Beaver's absolutely right here. |
Though Beaver has some good insights, I can't help but express the way i feel God feels. Unfortunately, not everyone is going to like that. Righteousness is not a cool thing. Love is a divisive powerful thing. Jesus said, I didn't come to bring peace, but I came to bring a sword.
Do you ever think preaching about virginity is ever going to be cool?
Or how about praying? Imagine going to the bar and saying guys, gals, I got some great new thing for ya....Let's all go pray.
Or here's a better one. Talking to others about how you disagree with homosexuality. Yeah, that's a great one for popularity.
The only thing cool about Christ, is the power of His love. It's awesome and mighty and that is the only thing i want to embrace.
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| 3)Jedi never got converts by going out in the street and talking to people, they just happened to be amazingly cool and that's all they needed even though people had to give up earthly attachments to join them. |
Man, when Jesus died on the cross, how many disciples died with Him that day? Not one, because they all deserted Him. Standing for righteousness in a world full of darkness is not going to be popular. People are going to spit on you, hate you, say nasty things to you, beat you up and everything else. Living for Christ is not a ticket for easy Jedi living. It means dying to everything. Every ounce of your desire and that even means to popularity and the fear of man.
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| 4)I don't remember why this thread started and I'm not going to go back to check either. |
You should and see how people gave their own interpretations of what it meant.
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| 5)My views are pretty close to those of C.S. Lewis. |
Good, CS Lewis is solid, but may it push you on to the fullness of Christ and that fullness should look like signs and wonders, miracles, healings and the fruit of the spirit. It is the only way, this world is going to believe in Christ. When it sees the power of God working through His love.
Cheers! |
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Satori
Joined: 09 Dec 2005
Location: Above it all
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| Posted: Thu Dec 22, 2005 10:58 am Post subject: |
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| fiveeagles wrote: |
I guess it is the most intolerant, tolerant religion there is. There is only one way to salvation, but anyone can come. You bring up good points, but when you break down each of these other religions down, you will see an intolerance of its own.
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No. Both Hinduism and Buddhism acknowledge other spiritual pathways as valid. |
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Grotto
Joined: 21 Mar 2004
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| Posted: Thu Dec 22, 2005 1:21 pm Post subject: |
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| I can't help but express the way i feel God feels. |
Again...its the way YOU feel. Not the way anyone else feels. YOU and only YOU.
You spread hate and intolerance 5eagles. You call it righteousness but it isnt...its arrogance...and the arrogance is yours.
You preach about your christs love, but in the same breath condemn homosexuals....are you capable of seeing YOUR prejudice?
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| Or how about praying? Imagine going to the bar and saying guys, gals, I got some great new thing for ya....Let's all go pray. |
Or how about fornicating? Imagine going to the church and saying guys, gals, I got some great new thing for ya.....lets all go Fuxx.
Stupid 5eagles...stupid. There is a time and a place for everything and when people are in a bar they are not interested in listening to someone elses stupidity. |
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fiveeagles
Joined: 19 May 2005
Location: Vancouver
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| Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2005 6:20 pm Post subject: |
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| No. Both Hinduism and Buddhism acknowledge other spiritual pathways as valid. |
You can't practise Hinduism or Christianity, because Christianity is mutally exclusive. Hinduism is also about hierachy, which separate those who are poor and those who are rich. There are levels to be reached in Hinduism and it separates those in the lower classes. If you are born in poverty or prostitution forget about a better life. There are other things that are quite injust about hinduism.
Buddhism on the other hand can work around Christianity's exclusiveness. IT's called enlightenment.
I don't have time to enter into this, but I believe Buddhism will be the world religion of the future. |
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Grotto
Joined: 21 Mar 2004
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| Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2005 6:25 pm Post subject: |
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| I don't have time to enter into this, but I believe Buddhism will be the world religion of the future. |
Then why oh why do you keep spouting out your christ garbage?
You just admitted that christianity is on its way out...why do you keep spouting out your stupidity? |
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fiveeagles
Joined: 19 May 2005
Location: Vancouver
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| Posted: Wed Dec 28, 2005 12:29 am Post subject: |
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Sinced you asked so nice, I guess I will answer you. 
Christianity isn't of this world, it is of Heaven. You only enter Christianity through the spirit of grace.
Grotto, you are the typical kind of person who has a radical conversion. Did you know that Paul was the one who persecuted the church and had Christians killed until he had an encounter with Christ. Then he became the leader of the church.
One time, I was working with a crew during the summer. A few of the guys hated me and one was going to beat me up. What happened was he ended up working with me and then gave his life to Christ. His whole life changed and affected everyone he knew. Not only did he not want to beat me up anymore, we became best friends.
Watch out Grotto, we could become friends.
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